Low WBC and High LDH? What does it mean?

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Farmwife

Farmwife

Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
6,242
Well I picked up Grace's most recent lab results.
We were told that ONLY her LDH was elevated.
Well reading through the results and her
WBC is low along with Neutrophils and Lymphocytes are low.
So what do those mean as a whole?

:thumright:Her IRON LEVELS WERE ALL NORMAL.:thumleft:

I'm also a little sick to find out that her LDH has been elevated for nine months.:yfrown:
Why wasn't I told about the low WBC and the others.
Why didn't any of these docs pick that up?
I mean I feel bad enough for not noticing the LDH.
Don't Doctors have computer programs to keep track of all this.
I mean if they can put (L) or (H) next to a count, you think they could monitor it better.:mad2:

Sorry for the rant.
I just don't get it! Why does she have to get worse!:frown:
Tomorrow I will be calling the GI and our Doctor's office AGAIN!:eek:rder: I WILL get answers. (I hope):shifty-t:
Thanks for the replies.:rosette2:
 
Yay for the iron. Now the questions........I'll get Dusty started. How high? How low? How long? It's hard not to jump on a single result though. I get it.

J.
 
LDH- 252._______________________________ Normal range 100-190
WBC- 4.0________________________________Normal range 5.5-17.5
Neu.- 1.2________________________________Normal range 1.5-8.5
Lymph.-2.3______________________________Normal range 3.0-9.5

Her LDH has gone a high as 600. The lowest was a couple months ago at 215.
 
Wish I could help you with some answers re the test results :(

But, as to why the doctors didn't pick up on it... The 'normal' ranges you see on your test results can vary from lab to lab, so if levels are just off slightly, they may not necessarily be off at the next lab. Also, I think there are instances where the doctors are looking for more than just whether or not the test result is within a defined range, for example:

- some indicators may have more relevance/importance than others
- some indicators may be more sensitive to any number of factors, doctors may look for a 'trend' rather than a one time result
- some indicators may not be important on it's own, may only be important if a second or third indicator is also high or low
- the 'absolute' number is misleading relative to the range, ie our lab shows normal CRP is 0-8, Stephen's last test was 27 (more than 3 times the normal) - seems high, right? When he was admitted in the hospital it was 190 -- 27, while still high, doesn't seem quite so distressing when compared to how high it can actually go.

So, right or wrong, I think doctors sometimes decide whether something is important enough to tell you (us). I would feel much better if any of our doctors explain EVERY result (so I'm not left guessing 'why') but, I suppose, their time is limited and not every parent is as aware of all the tests since they are not all on a forum like this - where we can, in fact, discuss every result. :)

This is just my opinion... anyone correct me if I'm wrong... :shifty-t:
 
Farmwife do you have any results from an early test. The doctor is looking for a trend. We don't all fit neatly in the range. I also hate that the results don't explained and your lefted wondering.
 
Hope it's nothing to be concerned about. I'm so glad her iron levels are normal! Hope she is acting and playing well. What breaks my heart so much is how much of the "fun" gets taken away when they are feeling so sick.

Take care!
 
When you look at the WBC w/diff numbers there are two sets. One set is the % or ratio of each type of WBC. The other set of numbers are the abs or absolute numbers.

It would be most helpful if you post all the numbers on the lab slip that you have because some things are connected but you don't know it. For example, LDH can be artificially inflated if her platelets are high. When you say her iron levels are fine, which iron levels would that be?

And you need to also post the reference ranges for each lab value.
 
LDH is a non-specific measure kind of like ESR. It tells you that there may be a problem but it doesn't tell you what the problem is. And when it's only a small amount above normal there may be a pretty simple (not necessarily bad) explanation for it.

Obviously, in Grace's case, that has been much higher in the past so it's good that it's so much lower now. It's hard to know whether this higher result is "real" in the sense that it's a return to an upward trend or is a fluke reading. Since her previous recent labs have been trending downward, I expect the doctor is taking a wait-and-see about this one, hoping it is just a fluke.
 
How frustrating for you!! It drives me mad when the docs keep saying "wait and see". How many times does it have to be high or low for them to actually do anything. Our docs do that all the time - my favourite is when you get an emergency appointment and the doc says - should be fine, bring them back if you are worried :ybatty:. I'm sorry but didn't I just get an emergency appointment for them? Worried now!
 
Have her labs always been drawn at the same lab (location)? I ask because sometimes a lab mishandles specimens and so going to a different lab might produce a different result. This is super unlikely but I thought I'd ask.

Is there any way for you to take her to either the Cleveland Clinic or to the University of Chicago Pediatric Immunology program for a thorough review of her case?

I say Immunology because she appears to be having repeated infections or infectious symptoms like fevers and, while that can be infectious diseases, it can also be Immunology. And Immunology looks at the big picture because that's what they have to do most of the time when they are diagnosing or excluding Immunological problems in children.

I think you have exhausted your resources there and her case needs the kind of expertise you can only get at a place like Cleveland Clinic. Continuing to second guess the doctors and ask for various tests is really not a good strategy for many different reasons. You need docs who are going to step back and look at the big picture and try to make sense of all the pieces, ones who can consider many different possible explanations for this clinical picture.

I could join the guessing game but I worry that doing so will contribute to delays in an accurate diagnosis of something that you or I could never guess is wrong.

I will tell you a story I don't usually share because it does not have a happy ending. But your story reminds me of it in some ways.

A mom came on another board trying to find answers to her son's unexplained belly pain, poor growth and some GI sx like nausea I think. His father had Crohn's and so she had come to the conclusion that he must have IBD of some kind. His worst symptom was periodic bouts of severe belly pain - really, really severe pain. But they lived some distance from a hospital and it was a small local one so she had never gotten him there during one of these bouts, let alone to a large hospital at a medical center.

The local pediatrician left for some reason and it took a while to get a new one as I recall. The new one wasn't very good I think and she tried to get help but felt the new peds wasn't listening. Eventually, after insisting he needed to be seen by GI (made sense right?) she got referrals to GI. But all their tests came back OK. She couldn't figure it out and the GI docs had basically washed their hands since they were sure he didn't have IBD. I remember us playing this kind of guessing game with her on that other board. Because it was an IBD board, of course all of us were focused on IBD or some kind of GI issue as an answer.

Eventually her son had one of his pain episodes and she managed to get to the ER at the medical center while he was still in intense pain. They called GI and the head of GI happened to be there and happened to see him in ER. And he said - this is not IBD and ordered a CT scan. Apparently no one had done this up til then.

It turned out that this boy had stage IV Neuroblastoma - a tumor the size of a football in his chest.

I am NOT saying I think Grace has a tumor.

I am just saying this is why doctors sometimes do what they do. They wait and see. They don't take one test result and decide it confirms a diagnosis or makes up a pattern. Because it is not always the obvious explanation that is the actual explanation. And missing something like cancer is a terrible thing to live with but diagnosing something else and delaying the diagnosis even longer because of that is worse.

It is also why, when you have the kind of complicated presentation that I am hearing you describe, you may need to stop pushing the local docs, stop trying to figure it out yourself and go somewhere big that has seen lots of strange and unusual things and may recognize your Grace's problems right away or at least have a reason for doing a particular test. Right now, it sounds like mostly things are being done for random reasons without any real theory about why to do them. And that is not good medicine.

Hugs and I sure hope they figure this out.
 
Last edited:
:heart:Thanks every one for your responses.:heart:
The farm has me busy and the school year is fast approaching.
I still have to get together my teaching stuff. My time will be limited.

Grace has had these test at the same lab.
I still have to call the GI and let them know.
When I told her about the LDH being raise,
the nurse kept asking if that was the only thing raised or lowered.

On to her c. diff.
Grace is the youngest known person in our city to get c. diff. (I still wonder about that but... that's what I was told.)
She went to I.D.S. up here and her case is known to I.D.S. down state at Devos Children's Hospital.
2 Stool samples have been taking and is negative. YA!
However theirs a chance that Grace is a carrier of c. diff and never had the "illness" of c. diff.
She NEVER got the runs and or fevers. Was NOT on antibiotic or around Hospitals. So who knows.
She also has been in pain since 6 mo. old.
So does that mean she's been fighting c. diff for 2 years?:shifty:
One doc says yes and the other doc says no.:ywow:

I hope you all have a great day!

Farmwife
 
Very frustrating!!! I had juvenile osteoporosis when I was five and I can only imagine what my parents went through trying to get me diagnosed... at the time, Toronto's children's hospital had had fewer than 10 cases in their history - it took a long time to finally reach a diagnosis (even had that old fail-safe - 'it's all in her head') and it came from an exchange student at the hospital from Europe (not one of the Heads of the multiple departments I'd been seen by)! Thank God he was here! :D I suppose, sometimes, it just takes time, a different viewpoint, a multitude of tests to rule 'out' if not rule 'in', etc.

Hang in there... but I hope she begins to feel a bit better!!!!! :Karl:
 
The programs we have here, and i don't imagine it is any different in the US, will automatically list a result in red when it is abnormal so there is no way it would be missed. Doctors normally will track trends though and when looking at the whole picture some results that are just below or above normal will not elicit anything needing to be done. I request copies all test results so I can keep an eye on things too. Gotta keep those docs honest! :lol:

Now this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic in a round about way...

Being on a dairy farm has the rest of the family had blood tests done?
I'm thinking of perhaps a casual factor that is common to the environment. Others may be asymptomatic but have slightly elevated liver enzymes???

Really clutching at straws here but I recall reading some time ago about an incident that occurred in Michigan in the seventies regarding cattle feed at dairy farms. I am assuming the farming is a generational thing so could hubby have been exposed (thinking congenital for Grace), assuming he was born then or perhaps his parent's were exposed to the products from the cattle???

:sorry: Just my musings hun in trying to leave no stone unturned and hoping more than anything I haven't caused offence by raising it!

Dusty. xxx
 
Ha! Dusty I mentioned some dairy farm thing to Farmwife a while ago also...maybe now that you mentioned it she will look into it...

Just joshing you farmwife...I know you are worried about Gracie and have done a ton of research and questioning...I just couldn't help it. It would be uncharacteristic for me to let that shot go. Before you know it you would be pm'ing me wondering if I was O.K..

Sorry I can't help you with the test results because as you know I never get them. I get only what the doc chooses to tell me and that is usually, looks good or looks bad. I once got Sed rate up come in...oh and anemia severe come in. Then got a looks great and recently got looks good and anemia improving which was a surprise because I didn't know anemia was bad (reference looks great) and needed improving. I trust our doc explicitely and have a diagnosis and treatment plan so I am in a much different boat but sometimes wonder if I won't be on here a year from now kicking myself for not getting copies all along. I admire you moms who can wrap your heads around all these tests...I just know for me that little bit of knowledge would be a very bad thing.
 
crohnsinct said:
Ha! Dusty I mentioned some dairy farm thing to Farmwife a while ago also...maybe now that you mentioned it she will look into it...


QUOTE]

Your right...................... I forgot Dusty did mentioned that. :ywow:

Thanks Dusty,:heart: when things calm down I'll have to look into that.:heart:
Your so wise and compassion it to think about what might be ailing Grace. :heart:
Thank you so much.:heart: Your the ONLY one that thinks of these things.:heart:

:ybiggrin: I had to rely crohnsinct. I didn't want you to think I was mad at you.:p
Click to expand...
 
Seriously laughing out loud all alone at computer!

We both just explained we were joking. Have we gone soft. Better stop that or we will ruin our reputation!

Now I am going to run upstairs before those crooks come back and I am sitting here waiting for them with no rolling pin in hand!
 
OMG. Are you sure you two aren't married! To each other I mean! And I am not your love child! :rof:
 
Clash how can you appreciates Dusty's post? Your just trying to cause problems?:rof:

First I would never marry crohnsinct.:ywow: Country and city never make it! NEVER:voodoo:

DustyKat we would make fine parents! To bad we couldn't acknowledge you until we ran for political office.:rof:
 
Stop it! You are breaking crohnsinct's heart!
wlEmoticon-brokenheart1.png


Well start campaigning then! I want to be able to hold my head high and announce to the world who my real parent's are! :shifty:

Dusty crohnsinct-Farmwife. :D
 
WHAT????:ywow:
Why can't it be Dusty Farmwife-crohnsinct?????
We all know that most drop the second last name.:voodoo:
Remember sweetheart I have a farm you can inherit.:kiss:
What can you get form crohnsinct?? Coupons that thieves don't want!:blush:

:rof:
 
Farmwife are you forgetting Green Acres?!? :rof:

Green acres is the place for me.
Farm livin' is the life for me.
Land spreadin' out so far and wide
Keep Manhattan, just give me that countryside.

New York is where I'd rather stay.
I get allergic smelling hay.
I just adore a penthouse view.
Dah-ling I love you but give me Park Avenue.

...The chores.
...The stores.
...Fresh air.
...Times Square

You are my wife.
Good bye, city life.
Green Acres we are there.

Match made in heaven!! And okay so maybe I was stirring the pot a tiny little bit!!! But the lyrics would be oh so much more pizzazified(new word) if I had a farmer smiley!!!
 
Clash you asked for it.



Time for a Farmwife story.

This is a joke, perhaps some of you have heard of it, that I'm going to countyrfied (new word) a wee bit.
If your a horse lover just know this never real happened!

A country man marries a city girl.
They leave on his horse drawn buggy to their home.
The new wife starts to think.............................
I hope he knows were not going to have many animals. I hate em.
Meanwhile the horse steps in a pothole and shakes the buggy.
The man says that's one.
Then the new bride starts to think........
He better start dressing better than this. He looks like his suit if made from a potato sack.
Once again the horse verse to the left and hit a wall
The man says that's two.
Then the new bride starts to think..............................................
We are so going to get him new friends.The ones he has just won't do any longer.
Then the horse takes off running and then stop suddenly almost throwing the man and his bride.
The man says that's three and....................................
Get down and shoots the horse.
The bride yells at her husband and he looks up and says....... that's one!
She became a pretty good country wife after that.:rof:

Now what does that have to do with anything. Nothin real.
But this is my thread and I can hijack without guilt if I want.

:rof:
 
:rof::rof::rof::rof::rof::rof::rof::rof::rof:

WAY WAY TOO FUNNY
But I wasn't invited to the wedding:yfrown:
 
:rof::rof::rof: Yes you can, Farmwife!! But you are going to have Crohnsinct worried with all that talk of farmers taking the three strike approach...city folk need time to become countryfied!!:ywow:
 
I find Clash that the thought of being shoot tends to work pretty darn quick.:ywow:
It did on me. :D
I'm not worried any more. I hid his bullets!!!:rof:


I'm just kidding. He know I'm a better shot then he is.:dance:
 
That plus you learned quickly how the rolling pin works so he learned quickly...city slicker or country bumpkin...best not to mess with a woman wielding a rolling pin:ywow:
 
I told Izzy's Mom (Angie) that I have to patten that rolling pin for defense idea.
I'll use the proceeds to fund IBD or whatever in sam-hill Grace has.:)
 
Yep on each rolling pin sold you can emblazon the phrase "THIS IS SAM HILL!!!" :dance:
 
I love it!!!
Our perhaps it should say "Meet Sam Hill".
So after I hit him with it it will be imprinted in his forhead.
I like it.
 
Um City Girls are not scared of bullets! We dodge them on a regular basis.

Critters yes! Bullets no!
 
Yeah....bullets no sweat!!! And we've already discussed what freaks me out Crohnsinct...but I've got that worked out...just gotta make me a tinfoil hat to ward off the evil!! I'm all good!!
 
Oh right...I forgot country girls don't cuss! ;)

City girls don't use rolling pins...we let Magnolia do our baking for us...go ahead girls goggle it and then step away from laptop lest you ruin it with your drool...not that anyone here has ever gotten water in their laptop:shifty:
 
OH MY GOD... they have monthly Cupcake Club memberships?!?! And they deliver?!?!? :lol: You're so right, crohnsinct, who needs a rolling pin?!? :D
 
Don't think I could fit a rolling pin in my handbag! Unless you came up with a super compact rolling pin for those of us who live in the town and have itty bitty handbags :ytongue:
Funny - I used to carry my mace spray around in my bag in South Africa - here I would probably be arrested for carrying it!
 
I was until hubby dragged me out to the suburbs. Now he just brings a half dozen or so home weekly...calms the savage beast.

Much ado #3
 

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