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MAP Vaccine Ready for Human Trials - Could be Used for Crohn's

It is ridiculous that US is one of the only developed nations that doesn't try to control MAP / Johne's disease.
Of course it doesn't - attempts to eradicate this kind of pathogens won't bring any money to any lobbyist group in Washington =) Even more - some of them would lose huge amount of their current profits.

So be ready to hear "there is not enough evidence to prove that Map is a cause of Crohn’s disease or a significant human pathogen" mantra thousands more times, even after RHB-104 trial results promulgation and after publication of long-awaited Hermon-Taylor's publication on new MAP blood/tissue test.
 
MarkB - Here is the Prof. Borody pediatric study that talks about treatment naive patients. Only 10 treated, so a very small sample size. I know I saw a comment from him somewhere, maybe an interview, where he talks about how the therapy could especially benefit treatment naive patients, but I've read so much I can't find it now!
http://ir.redhillbio.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=797192

Scared - Congrats! Wow, this must have been a rough month or so with all of this on your plate. Is this your first? I understand your dilemma. Do I preventatively treat with with big guns, especially if it's MAP, and hope you can kill most of it and stop any damage before he gets bad symptoms, or do you wait to see how long he can hold out feeling well and treat conservatively. That's really a decision you both have to make with your doc. At least he sounds pretty great! The only thing I could advise, is that you send his blood off ASAP to John Aitken to get him tested early for MAP. Trust me, you're not going to want to do this once you have the baby. It's a pain. I have kids, and they're loving time suckers! This would probably be the most important piece of data you could gain to make this decision right now. If one of my kids came down with this, and I knew it was Crohn's and I had a positive MAP culture, I'd personally hit it with all I had right from the start, but that's just me.

Yes, we'll know a ton more in a few years. Don't forget about John Aitken's publication (maybe this year?) and also future trials with Dietzia. History is filled with stories about unknown pathogens which were eventually determined to be responsible for disease. The biggest common thread in these stories I've read is that the diagnostic techniques weren't advanced enough to see the pathogen, so therefore scientists blamed the disease on something else, usually socially motivated. Also, seems like researchers have a thing for trying the therapies first on themselves. A bunch of the early TB researchers did this too!
 
Sandrine - Oh, how I wish I could just come over there and give you a huge hug!!! What an awful time you've had. I remember this process from a patient perspective in my teens, and I knew my parents struggled right along with me. As for a doc in Monteal, have you tried to contact Dr. Marcel Behr's group at McGill? He's a huge MAP fan and if he's not treating patients, he may be able to point you in the right direction. Also, here's a list of the RedHill sites. There's one in Quebec:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT01951326?show_locs=Y#locn

Maybe see if that doctor has a private practice and would consider talking to you about your daughter's case. I have another confidential contact as well from my list. I will send you a PM.

HUGE hugs!!! You're a great mom for looking after your daughter so well. CDiff is awful, so you want to proceed very carefully with AMAT and have a good doc on your side. Have you considered other options like CBD oil, LDN or UVBI? What antibiotics was she on that gave her trouble?
 
Of course, my worry is still this.
We know that OCTN transport proteins have been linked to Crohn's disease, these proteins are responsible for transport of neurotransmitters from the gut. Shut these down and you get serotonin toxicity in the gut.

What creates serotonin in the gut?

Bacteria.

What does AMAP therapy do? It kills bacteria indiscriminately.

So what if the reason that we're susceptible to MAP is the deficient OCTN transport proteins that are shutting down serotonin transport, and the chain of inflammatory effects that come as a result making the intestines vulnerable to pathogenic species (seeing as we see more than just MAP being implicated, including AIEC and chronic bouts of c.diff in crohn's patients). This could suggest a general susceptibility to pathogenic bacteria, not just MAP.

We're then back to treating symptoms instead of cause.

I still think AMAP sounds better than biologics and steroids, even if this is the case, but it means we need to keep digging, and I fear that once we have a 'good enough' solution that will stop.

If I understand you correctly, you mean that AMAP may work not necessarily by killing MAP but rather by reducing the number of gut bacteria in general, thus reducing serotonin levels and avoding the excess that may be the cause to the chronic inflammation ?
I heard before this argument that some AB also have anti-inflammatory properties and may be better than placebo even if MAP is not the cause.

However...
If this is the case I would expect antibiotics like Cipro to present similar performance to the AMAP combo ?
Also, I tend to believe that the genetic suceptibility to Crohns teaches us that an infection -is- a factor (overlap to immunodeficinicy/problem to kill intra-cellular bacteria); so it's not that the serotonin outtake from the gut is the cause and reducing gut bacteria is masking symptoms.
 
I can't comment on the seratonin bit, since I need to do a LOT more research to be literate. However, on the AMAT question, Cipro kills MAP to some extent, but not very well on its own. Plus, it's such a hardy bug that you really need a triple combo of intracellular antibiotics. Cipro/flagyl combo is actually approved for CD and each has some activity against MAP, but they're not strong enough to do much damage, so they can breed resistance. At least that's the way I understand it, but I'm not a doc! As a patient, flagyl helped me a ton, but AMAT has been a miracle.
 
:)
Monday 16 May 2016
0
HAVE YOUR SAY
Sufferers of a bowel disease and their families, want their newly elected MSPs to lend their support to a vaccine which may cure the condition.

Scientist, retired surgeon and Crohn’s disease specialist Professor John Hermon-Taylor and his team hope to begin human trials this year.

He said: “We believe we are on the verge of a breakthrough.”

Jean White and Maureen Graham from Kirkintilloch, who have close relatives with Crohn’s, are urging people to write to MSPs Rona Mackay and Gil Paterson. They want the issue pushed up the Scottish government’s agenda as a major public health concern. For more, visit https://www.facebook.com/crohnsmapvaccine/



Read more: http://www.kirkintilloch-herald.co.uk/news/local-headlines/crohn-s-vaccine-msps-aid-is-sought-1-4129044#ixzz48p9HwHBX
 
Honestly, even if SOME of crohn's is caused by this - even if it is 20% - it is worth it, to provide people who suffer with relief.
 
Scared - I've never done the genetics. I pretty much assumed I had some of the common mutations, since my entire extended family is littered with every type of "autoimmune" disease possible. IBD, T1D, lupus, asthma, arthritis of every kind. Have considered getting the kids screened but there may be privacy and medical implications with that in the future (wouldn't insurance companies love to know our DNA!), so have not done it. Plus, it's super expensive and I doubt covered by insurance. I think in. y case, the evidence points to that I probably have some mutations in those genes that can't clear intracellular infections.
 
MarkB - Here is the Prof. Borody pediatric study that talks about treatment naive patients. Only 10 treated, so a very small sample size. I know I saw a comment from him somewhere, maybe an interview, where he talks about how the therapy could especially benefit treatment naive patients, but I've read so much I can't find it now!
http://ir.redhillbio.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=797192

Scared - Congrats! Wow, this must have been a rough month or so with all of this on your plate. Is this your first? I understand your dilemma. Do I preventatively treat with with big guns, especially if it's MAP, and hope you can kill most of it and stop any damage before he gets bad symptoms, or do you wait to see how long he can hold out feeling well and treat conservatively. That's really a decision you both have to make with your doc. At least he sounds pretty great! The only thing I could advise, is that you send his blood off ASAP to John Aitken to get him tested early for MAP. Trust me, you're not going to want to do this once you have the baby. It's a pain. I have kids, and they're loving time suckers! This would probably be the most important piece of data you could gain to make this decision right now. If one of my kids came down with this, and I knew it was Crohn's and I had a positive MAP culture, I'd personally hit it with all I had right from the start, but that's just me.

Yes, we'll know a ton more in a few years. Don't forget about John Aitken's publication (maybe this year?) and also future trials with Dietzia. History is filled with stories about unknown pathogens which were eventually determined to be responsible for disease. The biggest common thread in these stories I've read is that the diagnostic techniques weren't advanced enough to see the pathogen, so therefore scientists blamed the disease on something else, usually socially motivated. Also, seems like researchers have a thing for trying the therapies first on themselves. A bunch of the early TB researchers did this too!
Sorry Irishgal! Just saw this post and didn't realize I didnt replt, my apologies...loooong story regarding this one, lol. This is my second child - I have a 14 year old from my first marriage which lasted for 3 years and had to end because of a very abusive (physically) husband. Got a divorce and had to deal with the stigma - raised my daughter, going to school nonstop the whole time, then last year I met my husband. What's weird is that I never had a social life and told myself I want to spend my life taking care of my daughter and just being at peace...met my husband last year in a coffee line at work and felt like I was going to have a happy ending - got married, got pregnant, and finally after 15 years felt at peace...My daughter and I were safe, my new husband was kind and I was suddenly relivinf everything I was deprived of most of my life, then crohn's hit. :( if you knew how many sleepless nights I had, pregnancy complications because of this diagnosis, and utter depression at not having my happy ending, I am surprised the baby is healthy thank god...I just hope that with the new research, that it will be 5-10 years and this crohn's mystery can be resolved...and the more I read the more I feel better, because its not false hope, I truely believe that maybe this isnt something I have to worry about for the next few decades...you get tired of anxiety after a while🙈
 
Wow Scared - you've been through a lot! That's horrible that your ex was abusive. Stuff like that should never happen. I'm glad you're safe now. I'm so happy for you that you got a second chance. Incidentally, I met my husband in a coffee shop as well, and we've had 14 amazing years so far! You'll still have your happy ending. Crohn's isn't great, and you've seen the stories, but you said your husband really doesn't have symptoms which is huge. Honestly, if it's not one thing, it's another. Plus, looking back on 25 years, I've been through a lot, but I've also lived my life as a pretty normal person for the last 25 years because it was mild for most of that, and then when I had surgeries and it got bad, I ended up fixing it with AMAT. Through it all, I still feel like I've done most of what I've wanted to do in life even though I've had to sacrifice a little on the physical side. I'm just not as hearty as I was pre-Crohns.

Even with Crohn's, I'd still tell you that I've found my happy ending. I have an amazing husband who is kind and caring, and he's taken care of me sometimes, which made us even stronger. Being sick really showed us what was important in life, and what was not. We rarely fight (despite having three kids!), and he's my best friend. Don't let Crohn's steal your new happiness. Your husband is getting this at the perfect time - when there is a ton queued up that may eventually provide a cure! There is so much new research being done, and now you're in the best group since I truly think this is pathogen based. You're already ahead of most, and your husband will benefit. Enjoy your baby, your daughter, your marriage and walk this life together! Crohn's is very manageable with individualized treatment. A HUGE hug to you!!!!
 
Wow Scared - you've been through a lot! That's horrible that your ex was abusive. Stuff like that should never happen. I'm glad you're safe now. I'm so happy for you that you got a second chance. Incidentally, I met my husband in a coffee shop as well, and we've had 14 amazing years so far! You'll still have your happy ending. Crohn's isn't great, and you've seen the stories, but you said your husband really doesn't have symptoms which is huge. Honestly, if it's not one thing, it's another. Plus, looking back on 25 years, I've been through a lot, but I've also lived my life as a pretty normal person for the last 25 years because it was mild for most of that, and then when I had surgeries and it got bad, I ended up fixing it with AMAT. Through it all, I still feel like I've done most of what I've wanted to do in life even though I've had to sacrifice a little on the physical side. I'm just not as hearty as I was pre-Crohns.

Even with Crohn's, I'd still tell you that I've found my happy ending. I have an amazing husband who is kind and caring, and he's taken care of me sometimes, which made us even stronger. Being sick really showed us what was important in life, and what was not. We rarely fight (despite having three kids!), and he's my best friend. Don't let Crohn's steal your new happiness. Your husband is getting this at the perfect time - when there is a ton queued up that may eventually provide a cure! There is so much new research being done, and now you're in the best group since I truly think this is pathogen based. You're already ahead of most, and your husband will benefit. Enjoy your baby, your daughter, your marriage and walk this life together! Crohn's is very manageable with individualized treatment. A HUGE hug to you!!!!
Thank you Irishgirl:) You made me a little teary - it's just frustrating I guess this whole uncertainty. Especially because of my prior bad situation - I developed major anxiety so I am always worried and trying to be in control because it was really bad back then when I didn't know at any time of day what would set my ex-husband off and it would be REALLY bad outcome for me that day, and so now with Crohn's, I worry about the uncertain future which contributes more than anything to my stress and anxiety. I guess this is a good lesson for me and you are right - this is the best time, with all the stuff that is coming down the pipeline, within a decade, I am sure the IBD landscape would be completely different than it is. Thank you for sharing your story - I have the utmost respect for what you have been on in your journey and for every single person on this forum. I can only wish I can develop strength like all of you and look back and say this made me better:)
 
If I understand you correctly, you mean that AMAP may work not necessarily by killing MAP but rather by reducing the number of gut bacteria in general, thus reducing serotonin levels and avoding the excess that may be the cause to the chronic inflammation ?
I heard before this argument that some AB also have anti-inflammatory properties and may be better than placebo even if MAP is not the cause.

However...
If this is the case I would expect antibiotics like Cipro to present similar performance to the AMAP combo ?
Also, I tend to believe that the genetic suceptibility to Crohns teaches us that an infection -is- a factor (overlap to immunodeficinicy/problem to kill intra-cellular bacteria); so it's not that the serotonin outtake from the gut is the cause and reducing gut bacteria is masking symptoms.
Other antibiotics do effect Crohn's, as someone else has stated. I was on flagyl for unrelated problems and my symptoms greatly improved.

We also seen patients improve on probiotic therapies as well as during fasts.

It also better explains the link to OCTN1 and 2 markers
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16333318

I haven't seen anything linking OCTN to susceptibility to MAP
 
Hi Eleanor, first let me say thanks for the link for the thread - it seems the SSI has some promise, but I am wondering that something like that could be used once the pathogen or whatever is the "trigger" has been cleared, but 8 weeks may not be a long enough time (similar to the AMAT therapy - you have to use it for a long time).

I just read this article - exciting stuff:)
 
That's OK :) I am interested in upcoming treatments that don't suppress the immune system and hope one of these research areas leads to a major breakthrough. The current FDA approved treatments rates leading to remission in clinical trials are so poor.
 
That's OK :) I am interested in upcoming treatments that don't suppress the immune system and hope one of these research areas leads to a major breakthrough. The current FDA approved treatments rates leading to remission in clinical trials are so poor.
I completely agree - it seems like all these immune system type of treatments are lacking either because the focus is purely immune. I read this article about a pair of twins - genetically identical, one had crohn's the other didn't. I mean IDENTICAL - so obviously, immune-only is not enough of a premise to develop treatments. With these numerous "breakthroughs" on the horizon - I think the final effective way is to clean out the pathogen (via a Vaccine of some sort - MAP or AEIC, or whatever the case is), ensure no re-infection to similar pathogens so the person would need to stick to a certain diet (which I think people would rather do after being cured of crohn's instead of with crohn's and restrictions) and some type of supplementary therapy - maybe SSI's every once in a while or some high degree of vitamin D dosages, or something. Whatever the final combo is - I do think that the current list of medications are just not cutting it, since if it is immune based solely, more should respond. But, who knows, we ill shall see...:smile:
 
This is very interesting - published May 15, 2016. I have attached the link and the excerpt that I want to focus on:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4801167/

Microbial modifiers

Gut microbiota is considered an essential trigger in chronic IBD. Bacterial overgrowth treatment with intraluminal antibiotics (Rifaximin) induced remission in patients with moderately active CD.56 The discovery of AIEC and MAP as etiopathogenic factors promotes the hypothesis of antibacterial drugs as therapeutics.

QBECO Site Specific Immunomodulator is a vaccine derived from inactivated E. coli bacteria, which has shown excellent results in the induction of clinical response and remission in subjects with moderate to severe CD (Phase I/II trials placebo-controlled).57 The basis of this therapy is to stimulate the innate immune system to remove the underlying trigger. During the trial, patients followed their normal therapeutic regimen for the CD.

MAP is the subject of the study MAP US Phase III, a randomized double-blind study aimed to investigate RHB-104 antibiotic (combining clarithromycin, rifabutin, and clofazimine) efficacy in inducing remission in patients with moderately to severely active CD.58 One previous study with the same antibiotic combination administered for 2 years had positive results at 18 weeks, but no final beneficial outcome.59
 
Hi Irishgal - I have a question about the MAP Vaccine. They are currently raising funding, but isn't the intellectual property rights owned by HAV Vaccines already to manufacture? Wouldn't they put up the funding? Just a random question....
 
Thank you Eleanor! I wanted to confirm - I was explaining it to my husband and that is one area, despite reading so much, I didn't confirm:)
 
Yes Scared, you are right. Even though the branding is for MAP Vaccine Heroes, the money raised by the public, non-investors seems to be going to the diagnostic test only. I think this is a more recent development since even a year ago it seemed that the public was raising funds for the vaccine. I'm not part of their group, so I can't fully answer!
 
There is also the UCF test that Redhill/Quest are commercializing, and which may become clinically available in the States sooner than the CMV tests.

In my layman's understanding, both tests follow the same premise, wherein there's a component that will bind to MAP, and these components have some markers that can be detected via some instrument. I believe the CMV test uses luminescence marker (picked up via spectrometer?), while the UCF/Redhill test relies on magnetic nanoparticles as markers.

Here's an excerpt from the description of the UCF patent:

These magnetic nanosensors are composed of a polymer-coated iron oxide nanoparticle onto which affinity ligands are conjugated to facilitate binding and magnetic detection of a particular target [11], [12]. Upon specific binding of a target to ligands on the magnetic nanoparticle, changes in the sample's magnetic resonance signal (specifically the water proton relaxation time; T2) occur that correlate with the target concentration in solution. By measuring the changes in T2 relaxation times upon target interaction and correlating the intensity of the change with the target concentration, one can develop a sensitive detection method, therefore the acronym of magnetic relaxation nanosensors (MRS).

Elsewhere they state that they use "oligonucleotide sequence (ATGTGGTTGCTGTGT) complementary to the IS900 sequence in MAP for their nanoparticle capture probe" (affinity ligand?).

I think the CMV test uses a MAP antibody to find and stick to MAP in the test sample.
 
There is also the UCF test that Redhill/Quest are commercializing, and which may become clinically available in the States sooner than the CMV tests.
I have been lead to believe however, that UCF/Naser's test does not work properly as it is not specific to MAP.

In my layman's understanding, both tests follow the same premise, wherein there's a component that will bind to MAP, and these components have some markers that can be detected via some instrument. I believe the CMV test uses luminescence marker (picked up via spectrometer?), while the UCF/Redhill test relies on magnetic nanoparticles as markers.
Yes, you can see the actual equipment used in Hermon-Taylor's MAP Test here: http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/map_test/

I think the CMV test uses a MAP antibody to find and stick to MAP in the test sample.
Yes, I believe that is correct. The most detailed explanation of the MAP Test is here: http://thecrohnsinfection.org/map-diagnostics-dr-amy-hermon-taylor/
 
It doesn't work for me using Windows 10 & Chrome or Firefox
Kek, just figured it out =)

Authors of the article made a typo in the URL - they wrote "c h r o n s" (had to write it with spaces =)) instead of "Crohn's", and dumb forum auto-correction mechanism converts this "c h r o n s" into "Crohn's" every time, even in the link body, so link eventually won't work =)

Go here and manually change "crohns" to "c h r o n s" (without spaces) in the browser's address bar.

P.S.:
Sooo much hassle with just one link ;)
 
Kek, just figured it out =)

Authors of the article made a typo in the URL - they wrote "c h r o n s" (had to write it with spaces =)) instead of "Crohn's", and dumb forum auto-correction mechanism converts this "c h r o n s" into "Crohn's" every time, even in the link body, so link eventually won't work =)

Go here and manually change "crohns" to "c h r o n s" (without spaces) in the browser's address bar.

P.S.:
Sooo much hassle with just one link ;)
Thank you Zim!
 
Thanks for correcting the link! Curious to know who wrote the article. It doesn't say. Was it from the vaccine camp?
 
So I came about this dissertation which literally summarizes all of the analysis and research done on MAP and Crohn's, a very interesting read. For lack of a better word - it "summarizes" 30 years worth of data and discusses the potential for associated between MAP and Crohn's - in a lot more detail than you would find in many online publications:

Excerpt #1:
For more than 30 years researchers have investigated M. paratuberculosis as a potential
cause of Crohn’s disease in humans and more recently as a cause of other human diseases
such as diabetes mellitus type 1 (T1DM) and multiple sclerosis; the evidence for these causal
relationships is summarized in a recent systematic review (Chapter 4) [11]. In brief,
researchers have demonstrated epidemiological associations between these diseases and the
presence of or seropositivity to M. paratuberculosis, however, there was a lack of association
between high exposure occupations (e.g. farmers, large animal veterinarians) and
development of Crohn’s disease [11]. A survey of topic specialists (Chapter 5) concurred
with the findings of our synthesis research (Chapter 4) that M. paratuberculosis likely poses
a risk to human health.
In this survey, 93% of respondents ranked it somewhere between low
and high risk [10], however, many topic specialists considered the priority of M.
paratuberculosis as a public health issue as only moderate due to poor understanding of how
exposure relates to disease [10].

Another excerpt:
Risk Characterisation: M. paratuberculosis
The epidemiological evidence indicates a fairly consistent association between M.
paratuberculosis and human diseases like Crohn’s disease [11]. These associations do not
necessarily reflect a causal relationship and there are numerous knowledge gaps in
understanding, including whether M. paratuberculosis is indeed pathogenic to humans and if
so the pathogenesis of disease, susceptible populations, and conditions of exposure (Chapters
4 and 5) [11, 12]. Overall, the available evidence suggests that M. paratuberculosis is likely
a component cause of Crohn’s disease, probably involving other factors. If this is true, there
may be many combinations of sufficient component causes that lead to Crohn’s disease,
some of which do not require exposure to M. paratuberculosis. [25]. This is supported by the
inability to detect M. paratuberculosis in all Crohn’s disease patients and the lack of
association between Crohn’s disease and occupational exposure, e.g. farmer or veterinarian
working with infected livestock [11, 26, 27]. Immune dysfunction in combination with other
factors is among the hypothesized multi-factorial causes of Crohn’s disease [25]. A good
deal of research has gone into identifying human genotypes associated with up or downregulation
of certain immune pathways and there is a large number of loci associated with
Crohn’s disease, but little clarity on which deficiencies result in development of Crohn’s
disease [28-30].

Here is the link to the dissertation (not sure if it was published yet):
https://atrium.lib.uoguelph.ca/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10214/9637/Waddell_Lisa_201605_PhD.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y

So the takeaways from my opinion: It may take a while to determine the cause and affect of MAP on Crohn's pathogenisis, however, the affiliation between the two is there and there is strong evidence indicating this. Therefore, preventative and caution should be taken = taking the MAP Vaccine just in case:) Whether or not my husband tests positive when he tries for it down the line, this is something hopefully as soon as it is approved 3-5 years down the line, that I think wouldn't hurt at all to take.

I hope the link works for you guys this time (it was presented April, 2016)!
 
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How long does it take to make one vaccine shot?
Sorry asking this question. I am very tired of this disease.
Hi Anti-map,
You know sometimes I wonder the same thing - I wish we could just know the what exactly the funds are for - even if they made the vaccine, do a trial on like literally 3-5 people, I am sure MANY will volunteer to see the efficacy and then that should get more people involved. I just read news everyday about research - biologics, new drugs, etc...and hardly anything about this vaccine which is disheartened and worrisome to me, because it makes it seem like it will never happen. They say human trials this year - but I read on some forum that they had said the same thing about last year...I actually sent them am email asking them to update their timeline on the website and whether they had an updates newsletter talking about the status....hope they reply soon.
 
I actually sent them am email asking them to update their timeline on the website and whether they had an updates newsletter talking about the status....hope they reply soon.
The timeline is being updated at the moment. For the MAP Test, a detailed breakdown of funds raised and what the money has been spent on will also be on the website soon. I can tell you it roughly breaks down between lab technician's salary, purchase of a flow cytometer and purchase of monoclonal reagents.
 
The timeline is being updated at the moment. For the MAP Test, a detailed breakdown of funds raised and what the money has been spent on will also be on the website soon. I can tell you it roughly breaks down between lab technician's salary, purchase of a flow cytometer and purchase of monoclonal reagents.
That's great JMC - thank you! Are you involved in the process? Is it still looking good for July testing? I worked in a lab for 3 years as a biochemist - if I lived there, I would volunteer like its nobody's business!
 
That's great JMC - thank you! Are you involved in the process? Is it still looking good for July testing? I worked in a lab for 3 years as a biochemist - if I lived there, I would volunteer like its nobody's business!
I am one of the people listed here: http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/about/team/

Regular update are available through the news letters which are here or via subscribing:
http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/category/news/newsletters/

I believe the vaccine trial has been delayed by a manufacturing hiccup at IDT in Germany, but the impact will only be clear when the timeline is updated.
 
I am one of the people listed here: http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/about/team/

Regular update are available through the news letters which are here or via subscribing:
http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/category/news/newsletters/

I believe the vaccine trial has been delayed by a manufacturing hiccup at IDT in Germany, but the impact will only be clear when the timeline is updated.
Oh that's so great you are a part of it! Is the hiccup going to cause a major delay? Thank you - and I do subscribe to the newsletters:)
 
I am one of the people listed here: http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/about/team/

Regular update are available through the news letters which are here or via subscribing:
http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/category/news/newsletters/

I believe the vaccine trial has been delayed by a manufacturing hiccup at IDT in Germany, but the impact will only be clear when the timeline is updated.
Ooh, bummer! Hopefully they'll resolve the manufacturing hiccup soon.

Does this mean that they've moved manufacturing from Jenner Institute? I thought that's where the vaccine was being produced for the trial.
 
Ooh, bummer! Hopefully they'll resolve the manufacturing hiccup soon.

Does this mean that they've moved manufacturing from Jenner Institute? I thought that's where the vaccine was being produced for the trial.
Good point! I haven't thought of that - I looked up IDT:
IDT Biologika is a German biopharmaceutical company with headquarters in Dessau-Rosslau. It develops and produces biotechnology-based vaccines and pharmaceuticals.

So are they the new producers as opposed to Jenner institute? Do you know JMC why they changed it by any chance?
 
Actually - just saw this might answer the question, it was always noted that it was produced by HAV Vaccines from when I started checking this a few months back, and here is an excerpt of their website:
News

JANUARY 2016

Share subscriptions reach £1.5 million
HVL has now raised a total of £1.5 million of subscription monies for new shares in HVL and has issued the relevant shares.

GMP manufacture

GMP manufacture of HVL’s priming vector ChAdOx2 HAV began in November 2015 at the Clinical BioManufacturing Facility at Oxford University.

GMP manufacture of HVL’s boost vector MVA HAV began in January 2016 at IDT Biologika GmbH in Germany. .
 
Hi Sid,
I was looking at your signature - you have been in remission since diagnosis without meds?
Hi,

Even before I was offically diagnosed with Crohns,,when the symptoms first appeared, I visited a an Ayurvedic doctor who diagnosed it as 'Grahani Rog' (its a Sanskrit term for Crohns/Colitis). The gentleman told me in clear words that going forward, food and lifestyle was my only medicine for life. Though he prescribed me meds and general Ayurvedic guidelines for my diet. I just followed the diet plan but didnt take the aurvedic medicines as I was always worried about side effects. Later when I was dignosed with Crohns disease after biopsy at a modern clinic, I was prescribed Pentasa. I continued Pentasa for a month and stopped, primarily because the medicines were expensive and also because my condition already started improving due to diet and lifestyle changes. That was the only time I took any medicines for Crohns.

I did follow few things though, especially that I learnt from this great forum. Like taking my Vit D and B12 shots though I have not taken B12 for months now and still its sufficient as per my last two tests. The only symptom that I continue to get is the gas formation But that I guess is not limited to only us Crohnnies.
 
Hi Sid,
That is very interesting - if you don't me asking, have you had a scope at all to check how things are progressing? What kind of diet did the doctor put you on that has helped?
 
Hi Sid,
That is very interesting - if you don't me asking, have you had a scope at all to check how things are progressing? What kind of diet did the doctor put you on that has helped?
The last colonoscopy in 2015 had showed no signs of Crohns. The biopsy was not done. No inflammation detected through blood work either. I plan to go for a colonoscopy by the end of this year or may be the beginning of next year where I will also ask to get a biopsy done. The diet plan consisted of mainly select vegetable (and avoiding many of them), fruits, Morning intakes of curd, Avoiding non veg totally including eggs (although I cheated sometimes, but no red meat at all), I also stuck to khichdi, which is a special Indian preparation of rice and lentils for two weeks at a stretch then slowed down to once a week. apart from this changes in time and quantity of food intake and avoiding certain food after sunset, for example curd, etc. I keep following it even today though I cheat sometimes with chicken :p but I know my limits. The list of changes is long,,will PM you if you want..I think it would be inappropriate to hijack this lovely thread.
 
The last colonoscopy in 2015 had showed no signs of Crohns. The biopsy was not done. No inflammation detected through blood work either. I plan to go for a colonoscopy by the end of this year or may be the beginning of next year where I will also ask to get a biopsy done. The diet plan consisted of mainly select vegetable (and avoiding many of them), fruits, Morning intakes of curd, Avoiding non veg totally including eggs (although I cheated sometimes, but no red meat at all), I also stuck to khichdi, which is a special Indian preparation of rice and lentils for two weeks at a stretch then slowed down to once a week. apart from this changes in time and quantity of food intake and avoiding certain food after sunset, for example curd, etc. I keep following it even today though I cheat sometimes with chicken :p but I know my limits. The list of changes is long,,will PM you if you want..I think it would be inappropriate to hijack this lovely thread.
Thanks - that is very interesting! Yes, if you can please PM me details, I would like to encourage my husband to follow this if possible!
 
Super late to this forum .... Is anyone on Stellara? I am suppose to go see a doctor this month that can get me approved through insurance for the med. just curious how many people are already trying it.
 
Nice article - talks about dysbiosis seen in MAP infected cows. I wonder if they can look at the dysbiosis seen and compare to see if there is a similar "pattern" seen in human's by comparing each profile?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27494144

Abstract:
PLoS One. 2016 Aug 5;11(8):e0160353. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0160353.
Dysbiosis of the Fecal Microbiota in Cattle Infected with Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis.
Fecteau ME1, Pitta DW1, Vecchiarelli B1, Indugu N1, Kumar S1, Gallagher SC1, Fyock TL1, Sweeney RW1.
Author information
Abstract
Johne's disease (JD) is a chronic, intestinal infection of cattle, caused by Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis (MAP). It results in granulomatous inflammation of the intestinal lining, leading to malabsorption, diarrhea, and weight loss. Crohn's disease (CD), a chronic, inflammatory gastrointestinal disease of humans, has many clinical and pathologic similarities to JD. Dysbiosis of the enteric microbiota has been demonstrated in CD patients. It is speculated that this dysbiosis may contribute to the intestinal inflammation observed in those patients. The purpose of this study was to investigate the diversity patterns of fecal bacterial populations in cattle infected with MAP, compared to those of uninfected control cattle, using phylogenomic analysis. Fecal samples were selected to include samples from 20 MAP-positive cows; 25 MAP-negative herdmates; and 25 MAP-negative cows from a MAP-free herd. The genomic DNA was extracted; PCR amplified sequenced on a 454 Roche platform, and analyzed using QIIME. Approximately 199,077 reads were analyzed from 70 bacterial communities (average of 2,843 reads/sample). The composition of bacterial communities differed between the 3 treatment groups (P < 0.001; Permanova test). Taxonomic assignment of the operational taxonomic units (OTUs) identified 17 bacterial phyla across all samples. Bacteroidetes and Firmicutes constituted more than 95% of the bacterial population in the negative and exposed groups. In the positive group, lineages of Actinobacteria and Proteobacteria increased and those of Bacteroidetes and Firmicutes decreased (P < 0.001). Actinobacteria was highly abundant (30% of the total bacteria) in the positive group compared to exposed and negative groups (0.1-0.2%). Notably, the genus Arthrobacter was found to predominate Actinobacteria in the positive group. This study indicates that MAP-infected cattle have a different composition of their fecal microbiota than MAP-negative cattle.
 
Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum (and newly diagnosed) and trying to get my head around all the currently available and future treatment options for Crohn´s. As I read about meds in Phase II/III, I couldn´t help but notice that more often than not promising drugs are bought by bigger pharmaceuticals or bio companies and I can´t help but wonder: if anti-MAP or a MAP vaccine is a credible way forward in managing Crohn´s, why aren´t there any big pharmas working on this as well or attempting to buy the technology? At the very least, why isn´t this getting market attention from the big players or other research groups around the globe? Thoughts?
 
Julia - RedHill is a BioPharma doing a Stage 3 trial (which is almost done) on AMAT. Prior to RedHill, there was nothing to patent because the MAP theory uses generic drugs. Big Pharma wouldn't be interested, plus it would knock out their billions of immunosuppressants if Crohn's was shown to be pathogenic.

Also, the MAP theory could never be conclusively proven because the diagnostic techniques were not available. But now there are labs working on these successfully, and I'm guessing down the road a lot more companies are going to either offer to purchase these smaller, successful ones (like Otakaro) or begin their own R&D on these methods. RedHill is the key. Once AMAT is approved by the FDA for the treatment of CD, companies will jump in. I've noticed that in the veterinary sector, there is a huge interest in techniques and diagnostics to deal with MAP in food and cattle. Even Nestle jumped in with a new method to purify their infant formula.

I'm sorry you have CD. It's a rocky road sometimes, but you got it at the perfect time, when the science is blowing wide open. Hopefully you won't have the decades of stories like many of us, and your case can be managed to give you the best quality of life. And who knows, I've never given up hope for a cure, and the new research really makes me think that I'll see it in my lifetime. I hope you are well, and please reach out if you need anything.
 
Any news on the MAP vaccine?
I want to revise my estimate to mid-2020's at earliest for when I think the vaccine might become available as I have thought about this some more.

There has been some recent research in immuno-oncology that uses a heat-killed whole cell Mycobacterium vaccine to augment pancreatic cancer treatment. This vaccine is used to fire up the immune system (T-Cells) to augment the effects of a chemotherapy drug targeting pancreatic cancer.

The company behind it, Immodulon Therapeutics, is also a UK company. From 2010-2015, their cash position ranged from £2M-£5Million, likely sufficient to comfortably fund clinical trials.

They started and completed their Phase 1 (safety) trial in 2010. They then went on to Phase 2 in 2011, and though wrapped up in 2015, are still working on final results. Work is being done on initiating Phase 3 but nothing yet. The upshot is that Phase 1 and 2 took about 6 years to complete. Phase 3 may tack on another 3 or 4 years to process, so a decade from the start of Phase 1 to completion of Phase 3 is not unfathomable.

So if MAP Vaccine goes into trials end of this year, and all the data between now and the end of phase 2 trials show promise, then a vaccine may become available by mid-2020s.

The wrench in the works though is at what pace and with what vigor can development continue to be driven forward? Prof. Hermon-Taylor's bio says he became a doctor in 1960. Wikipedia says it takes 7-9 years to become a doctor in the UK. So it's likely he was 25-30 years old at the time. Fast-forward 56 years to today, that puts the professor at about 80 Y.O. Though I'm sure the professor is as healthy as an ox, he is getting up there in years. And how well is their effort funded? They continue to push for crowd-funding their efforts, though I know the entity that owns the intellectual rights to the vaccine may have more capital at hand.

Back in 2013 when I learned about the MAP vaccine I was a much bigger cheerleader of their efforts. As time passes, I have gained a better appreciation for the difficulties of drug development and am scaling back my expectations.
 
Yea, reading about some of the biologics and other medications used for Crohns, it seems it usually takes 10 years between initial assessment and the drug hitting the market. And, in any case, we really have no idea if the vaccine will actually work :( It's frustrating to think that we might need to wait a couple more years just to find out if the vaccine is effective or not in humans. ...Sigh..
 
Any update on the phase I trials for the vaccine, JMC?

As for the redhill news, I'm not sure if it's good or bad news that interim results will now only be released in Q2 2017...
 
Any update on the phase I trials for the vaccine, JMC?

As for the redhill news, I'm not sure if it's good or bad news that interim results will now only be released in Q2 2017...
Hi Julia,
On the contrary - very good news if you tuned into their webcast (I did). By increasing their length of the trial - they are able to show greater efficiency because they have a larger sample size, and they are introducing an early stop process for very success results as an option. The interim results are very good and a new paper was published:

"A single capsule formulation of RHB-104 demonstrates higher anti-microbial growth potency for effective treatment of Crohn’s disease associated with Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis"
 
Thanks for the update Scared1. Did they say anything about the current trial? Around 200 people completed half the trial, correct? Was anything mentioned about their progress?
 
Replay of RHB's webcast is available here: http://edge.media-server.com/m/p/mfnetkpw You can enter any name and email in the registration form in order to gain access to the replay.

The interim results are very good
But in both webcast (around 13:00 timestamp) and in their press-release from October 6 2016 ( http://ir.redhillbio.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=992371 ) they state that "RedHill will remain blinded to the interim and ongoing results from the Phase III study". In webcast it was said "of course we'll remain blinded on results until independent interim analysis in q2 2017". So something is misunderstood.

a new paper was published:

"A single capsule formulation of RHB-104 demonstrates higher anti-microbial growth potency for effective treatment of Crohn’s disease associated with Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis"
Link to the paper itself: http://gutpathogens.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13099-016-0127-z

I don't understand why they are so arrogant to make statements about efficacy of RHB-104 in theatment of Crohn's Disease based solely on in vitro studies..

Did they say anything about the current trial? Around 200 people completed half the trial, correct? Was anything mentioned about their progress?
Progress of these 200 will be independently analyzed in q2 2017. In the case of overwhelming success study will be finished, otherwise recruitment will continue until the end of 2017 in order to recruit all four hundred something participants. So no info about progress until q2 2017.
 
I don't understand why they are so arrogant to make statements about efficacy of RHB-104 in theatment of Crohn's Disease based solely on in vitro studies..
The study you are referring to was not done by RedHill. A different lab used the RHB104 generic forumulation and tested it's effectiveness in vitro. They are not affiliated with RedHill. RedHill is still blinded.

It doesn't seem like RedHill is making arrogant statements to me. My guess is that of course RedHill thinks this is going to work though. They've had a positive Phase 2 study and keep in mind, this is the basic formulation that Prof. Borody's been using for years with success, and then it was licensed to RedHill for the Phase 3 trial.
 
I don't understand why they are so arrogant to make statements about efficacy of RHB-104 in theatment of Crohn's Disease based solely on in vitro studies..
It's not arrogance so much as it is "selling the dream." Small biotech and pharma wannabes do it all the time. It's part of the way to keep the enthusiasm up and hopefully attract investors.

We just have to be patient. Eventually the data will tell the real story. Data always wins in the end.
 
I would still very much like to know what's going on with the vaccine.

Phase I trials were supposed to start earlier this year and were delayed due to a manufacturing pickup. I´d love to know what's the current news on this as the website hasn't been updated in a while...
 
I would still very much like to know what's going on with the vaccine.

Phase I trials were supposed to start earlier this year and were delayed due to a manufacturing pickup. I´d love to know what's the current news on this as the website hasn't been updated in a while...
Agreed, they seem to have stopped doing the newsletters now, which makes me think there have been further delays or something.
 
The Crohn's MAP vaccine effort is pretty unique. They have been crowd-funding part of their effort for a few years now, so there is an expectation from the community that they should be kept in the loop. Yet the CMV folks need to pursue a careful scientific approach if they are to attract serious consideration. I really know nothing, and may be talking out of my hind end, but to me it almost feels like they're stalling to see how the RedHill trials pan out, with some meaningful data slated for the first part of next year.

I wish anyone wishing to crack the Crohn's nut all the success in the world. I take a wait-and-see attitude on the MAP hypothesis.
 
I really know nothing, and may be talking out of my hind end, but to me it almost feels like they're stalling to see how the RedHill trials pan out, with some meaningful data slated for the first part of next year.
I don't think that is the case. I am quite sure if the Vaccine and MAP Test had been ready they would have preferred to get ahead of Redhill, not wait for their results. Unfortunately, I suspect the silence is not good news.
 
I don't think that is the case. I am quite sure if the Vaccine and MAP Test had been ready they would have preferred to get ahead of Redhill, not wait for their results. Unfortunately, I suspect the silence is not good news.
I agree JMC, which is unfortunate. I am hoping for some news of SOMETHING in 2017. A relative of mine who is in medical school was sharing some of his notes regarding what he was being taught about IBD - from a top school here in the US. It was all about microbiome shifts and causes being dietary and environmental as big factors, not only nature tendencies (i.e. genetic). I thought that was interesting that is being taught instead of autoimmunity and that's it. Not sure what that means for people who have it, but let's cross our fingers for some trial results in 2017. I am honestly waiting to hear something about QU Biologics SSI, but haven't heard or read not a single thing.
 
I agree JMC, which is unfortunate. I am hoping for some news of SOMETHING in 2017. A relative of mine who is in medical school was sharing some of his notes regarding what he was being taught about IBD - from a top school here in the US. It was all about microbiome shifts and causes being dietary and environmental as big factors, not only nature tendencies (i.e. genetic). I thought that was interesting that is being taught instead of autoimmunity and that's it. Not sure what that means for people who have it, but let's cross our fingers for some trial results in 2017. I am honestly waiting to hear something about QU Biologics SSI, but haven't heard or read not a single thing.
Im a med student near qualifying and we were taught that it was certainly autoimmune, i had a lengthy talk with some of the gastro consultants who all expressed that even if the cause were some infection or antibiotic upset that investigation would definitely not find anything there anymore, the self perpetuating disease is set in motion.
 
Scared1, I believe QuBiologics are planning another, bigger trial the first or second quarter of this year. Regarding the vaccine, I don't believe there will be any answers in 2017. Phase 1 is planned to start this January, but it is only on healthy people to make sure it is safe. Phase 2a is planned for the end of the year, but the data will not be analyzed until 2018 (if all goes well).
 
Anonymous 77, I don't understand what the GIs are telling you. They think that there can be no chronic infection? If so, how do they explain the mostly positive results people are getting from AMAT?
 
I agree with Mommabear. I spoke to my cousin and my husbands GI who graduated from Columbia Medical school and they reiterated what I stated. To say that if it is an infection nothing will come of it is a bit strange of sweeping generalization - there have been instances where dysbiosis or attempting to clear the infection whether AEIC, MAPs etc has shown improvement.
 
Im not going into GE so i can only answer speculatively, although they are from a global centre for leading IBD care. The idea is that there is no ongoing infection, just some event, which could be a pathogen,activates a latent immune fault causing autoimmunity to some extent. The initial cause is just temporary but the body is left changed for life.

It happens a lot in autoimmune disease, some negative event leaves the immune system mistakenly self-targeting and nothing short of autologic stem cell transplant would ever totally relieve this.

One consultant stated on the mycobacteria theory that its not a surprise - every time a new type of pathogen comes to academic interest or a microorganism discovered in the body it is proposed as being behind every disease we dont understand, until the hysteria dies down.

I dont know enough to say if its wrong in this case, and i desperately hope it is the cause and we can all be better - but we aren't really seeing that through trial data as it stands unfortunately.
 
Thanks for your long answer Anonymous77.

The thing is, the idea that MAP might be behind Crohn's is not new. I believe even Burrell Crohn thought there was a link. And there is in fact a lot of compelling research pointing to MAP as a culprit, but I think a lot of GIs remain glued to the flawed Selby trial to reinforce their beliefs. It's really weird that they hold onto Selby's conclusions despite the many flaws and despite the fact that remission rates were actually higher than in the Humira trials! I am biting at the bit, waiting for Redhill to publish their results which will hopefully change the landscape, at least in regards to the efficacy of AMAT.

And how would they explain the test results that are coming back positive, indicating ongoing bacterial presence, both in tissue and in blood? I think this recent paper from October where the patient actually sheds MAP adds to the arsenal: Concurrent Resolution of Chronic Diarrhea Likely Due to Crohn's Disease and Infection with Mycobacterium avium paratuberculosis. (October 2016).

Also, I thought most GIs were moving away from this idea of autoimmunity. It certainly doesn't explain the massive increase in cases, particularly among children and in Asia. I should think the numbers would remain constant if it were autoimmunity. It's weird that cases would increase so dramatically without some pathogen spreading. In my mind, doctors who blame disease on autoimmunity say that because they don't have an answer. They don't know what else to call it. They should watch Prof. Marcel Behr debunk the autoimmune theory.

I have been looking at Mycobacterium generally and trying to understand it. I am no scientist, so what I understand is probably quite rudimentary, but for people who are infected with Intestinal TB for example, there are so many similarities to Crohn's, including the disease going dormant. But no doctor would argue that a person infected with TB does not have a chronic infection. Also, it seems scientists are just beginning to understand the stealth of these bacteria, hiding deep inside biofilms and escaping detection. The problem is figuring out how to break down these fortresses and getting to them.

Personally, I will need someone to prove that it is NOT MAP for me to look for another culprit for most Crohn's cases, and perhaps AIEC for others. I feel like it is there, in front of these doctors, but they are like faulty immune systems, unable to see it...
 
It happens a lot in autoimmune disease, some negative event leaves the immune system mistakenly self-targeting and nothing short of autologic stem cell transplant would ever totally relieve this.
It doesn't just happen through some event. Inflammation is very specific in crohn's disease, it's not like in UC where the whole organ is inflamed, crohn's disease features regional transmural inflammation. Early signs of crohn's disease show inflamed peyer's patches that are exclusive to the ileum.

There is no self-antigen you can point to in CD, there is no organ wide tissue inflammation, the type of inflammation resembles intestinal TB and Granulomatous Disease, not UC, the mesentery is involved and genetic predisposition point to autophagy defects. AIEC are consistently found in the ileum of CD patients and dysbiosis is a hallmark of the disease. CD is not consistent with autoimmunity.

There are millions of bacteria active in the ileum, both commensal and increasingly recovered in CD patients, pathogenic bacteria taking advantage of genetic anomalies, those pockets of inflammation seen in crohn's disease are a result of macrophages responding to a microbial antigen and activating T lymphocytes, they are not responding to a self-antigen, crohn's disease does not feature inflammation as seen in UC.
 
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One consultant stated on the mycobacteria theory that its not a surprise - every time a new type of pathogen comes to academic interest or a microorganism discovered in the body it is proposed as being behind every disease we dont understand, until the hysteria dies down.
MAP targets the ileum in ruminants with Ptb, that's why it's of interest to people who study Croh's disease. It's not "proposed as being behind every disease", no, it causes patchy inflammation of the ileum and weight loss in cows, the same features you find in people with CD, that's why it's relevant to study, we want to know if there's a possibility of a zoonotic disease in people with CD.

Genetic predisposition in CD patients also points to predisposition to mycobacterial infections. That's why the relationship between MAP and Crohn's disease is being looked at. Not because of hysteria.

I've been tested multiple times for the presence of MAP, always negative, yet I would never outright discredit the idea that MAP might be involved in some people with CD. There are far too many similarities between Ptb and CD to throw the theory overboard.

Tell the consultant to make an account on the forum.
 
Kiny - Cows and other ruminants have vastly different digestive systems to us, if it was shown in primates it may be interesting but even then i would wait until human trials before getting excited, there are countless pathogens that are damaging in animals and not in us or vice versa. Especially when the disease seems different, with MAP causing ileal inflammation and crohns causing disparate inflammation of all the digestive tract, joints, eyes, potential vitamin synthesis errors and more.

No-one's saying to throw the theory overboard, i was just stating that my experience with the GEs is that they dont retard it likely and they're quite certain it is autoimmune.

I feel there's a desperation here that it isnt autoimmune but rather an infection as this has a better chance of being cured and is less embarrassing - i usually tell people its thought to be an infection for the same reason and i hold out hope this research turns up well, but im not yet convinced.
 
Mommabear -The shedding of bacteria could just be the result of crohns disruption leading to dysbiosis, or just that new sensitive tests are finding normal bacterial presence. It may well be MAP is a commensural, normal organism in many people. More rigorous studies are needed to actually show the relationship.

I agree crohns being a granulomatous degree is reminiscent of tb and i would like more follow up there, but one consultant i talked to there suggested the granulomas would be empty of anything abnormal and that it could be like sarcoidosis, which forms granulomas but is also believed to be autoimmune.

Immune diseases certainly are on the rise, both autoimmunity and deficiencies - as i said i dont have much GE experience but i was on placement with a researcher working on the effect of xenooestrogens on human health and there's a strong correlation between increasing western exposure to oestrogens, lowering testosterone and rising immune disease. His study was looking more specifically at certain physical disorders but it was a really interesting side point. Our population today is far more afflicted by immune dysfunction than ever before.

You are right that we are only still working out how mycobacteria co-opt and hide from our immune defences and that just saying "autoimmune" seems like a lazy deflection - so i really hope as well that this research turns up positive, but the pace, cancellations, openness and practices of the researchers leaves me suspicious.
 
if it was shown in primates it may be interesting

It's been seen in stumptailed macaques and other primates multiple times, see the MAP description I made with links to resources you can read.

It's not about if it's "interesting". It's costing farmers millions, I talk to those people on a regular basis, the same people who test MAP in animals, have vested interest to test the presence of MAP in humans.

Cows shed MAP in their faeces, when a calf is born they get infected, it contaminates the soil and the nearby river aerosol will show the presence of MAP a few weeks later, it seeps into the soil and can contaminate other farms. In a few weeks time the whole dairy farm is infected. For the farmer it often means the end of their business. Cows with Ptb no longer produce enough milk to be economically viable and can not be sold, few nations have government programs to help recoup the cost of Ptb infections. Japan is one of the few nations where a farmer program fully recoups the cost of the lost cow if it's shown to host MAP, in the West these programs are severely lacking and the farmers ends up paying the bill.

This is reason we have government funded research going into the zoonotic potential of MAP, if MAP is making people sick then it's a worldwide public health crisis. There is no reason to be dismissive about it or to call it "hysteria".

http://www.crohnsforum.com/wiki/MAP


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3559275

crohns causing disparate inflammation of all the digestive tract, joints, eyes, potential vitamin synthesis errors and more
Typical crohn's disease is transmural patchy inflammation of the ileum and sometimes colon involvement, not "all the digestive tract". We don't call disease that isn't UC but has patchy colon inflammation crohn's disease, we call it crohn's colitis to make the distinction. A name used in the past for crohn's disease and still often used is chronic enteritis, ileum involvement, not just any place.

Inflammation in CD is very specific, during early biopsies you can pinpoint the inflammation down to the peyer's patches, only found in the ileum.

I'm sure there are lots of people diagnosed with CD that don't actually have chronic enteritis, but that doesn't mean that you can paint the disease with such a wide brush and argue that inflammation is present anywhere, it's not.

I feel there's a desperation here that it isnt autoimmune but rather an infection...and is less embarrassing
Autoimmunity requires the presence of a self-antigen, which has never been conclusively found in people with CD. All genetic predispositions, ATG16L1, NOD2, even anomalies in vitamin D receptors, activity of the peyer's patches during teenage years coinciding with disease onset, all of those factors point to continued bacterial involvement. They point to innate immunodeficiences and autophagy and APC anomalies. Not to mention the actual presence of bacteria found in lesions, AIEC has been consistently recovered from CD intestinal tissue. That is why bacterial involvement is contemplated, not due to "desperation or embarassment".

I'll end the conversation there I think, not too fond of the arguments being used.
 
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Anonymous 77, I understand your situation. You are a med student, talking to the specialists and I am guessing, not in the best position to argue other points of view with them. (They actually seem rather patronizing) However, I think Kiny made some excellent arguments which I hope will keep your mind open. I also hope you don't judge the validity of MAP based on one project. Once again, borrowing from the experience of TB, there are currently 15 human trials going on right now which are testing vaccines. There have been many earlier ones too. So far, not one has made it to Phase 3, but they keep trying! If the MAP vaccine works, we will all dance on the rooftops, but if it doesn't, it doesn't mean that MAP is not the culprit. It just means that the MAP vaccine, like the other vaccines against mycobacteria, will need more work. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.
 
New article:

Gut Pathog. 2017 Jan 3;9:1. doi: 10.1186/s13099-016-0151-z. eCollection 2017.
Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis and associated risk factors for inflammatory bowel disease in Iranian patients.

Zamani S1, Zali MR2, Aghdaei HA2, Sechi LA3, Niegowska M3, Caggiu E3, Keshavarz R4, Mosavari N4, Feizabadi MM5.
Author information


  • 1Department of Microbiology, School of Medicine, Tehran University of Medical Sciences, Tehran, Iran.
  • 2Gastroenterology and Liver Diseases Research Center, Shahid Beheshti University of Medical Sciences, Tehran, Iran ; Basic and Molecular Epidemiology of Gastrointestinal Disorders Research Center, Research Institute for Gastroenterology and Liver Diseases, Shahid Beheshti University of Medical Sciences, Tehran, Iran.
  • 3Department of Biomedical Sciences, University of Sassari, Viale San Pietro 43b, 07100 Sassari, Italy.
  • 4PPD Tuberculin Department, Razi Vaccine & Serum Research Institute, Karaj, Iran ; Reference Laboratory for Bovine Tuberculosis, Razi Vaccine and Serum Research Institute, Agricultural Research Education and Extension Organization (AREEO), Tehran, Iran.
  • 5Department of Microbiology, School of Medicine, Tehran University of Medical Sciences, Tehran, Iran ; Thoracic Diseases Research Center, Tehran University of Medical Sciences, Tehran, Iran.


Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) is described as a relapsing condition with high morbidity and uncertain complex pathogenesis. The association of Mycobacterium avium ssp. paratuberculosis (MAP) with Crohn's disease (CD) in human has been debated for decades, however there is no confirmed data to verify such relations in Iran. The aim of this study was to investigate risk factors and a possible role of MAP in Iranian patients with CD.
METHODS:

Anti-MAP antibodies were detected in serum of IBD patients and subjects without IBD (nIBD) through ELISA; MAP DNA and viable MAP cells were identified in patients' biopsies through nested PCR and direct culture methods, respectively. Principal component analysis (PCA) was used to investigate the risk factors in relation to IBD and MAP infection.
RESULTS:

Positivity for IS900 PCR was detected in 64% (n = 18) of CD, 33% (n = 10) of ulcerative colitis (UC) and 9.7% (n = 6) of nIBD samples. Live MAP cells were isolated from biopsies of 2 CD patients only. Among 28 patients with CD, 46% (n = 13) and 39% (n = 11) were positive for antibodies against MAP3865c133-141 and MAP3865c125-133 peptides, respectively, whereas much lower seroreactivity was detected in UC subjects accounting for 3% (n = 1) for MAP3865c133-141 and 16.7% (n = 5) for MAP3865c125-133. A high immune reactivity to MAP epitopes among CD patients was positively correlated with consumption of fast food meals and IBD familiarity. For both CD and UC, breastfeeding period and consumption of fruit/vegetables presented negative correlation with the presence of anti-MAP antibodies.
CONCLUSIONS:

This study provided evidences that high prevalence of MAP DNA and anti-MAP antibodies in CD patients is significantly associated with the development of CD. Despite the role of several factors contributing to IBD, the presence of MAP DNA and anti-MAP antibodies in Iranian CD patients highlights a possible transmission of MAP from animal-derived products to humans.
 
I would still very much like to know what's going on with the vaccine.

Phase I trials were supposed to start earlier this year and were delayed due to a manufacturing pickup. I´d love to know what's the current news on this as the website hasn't been updated in a while...
On the CMV site's January 2017 Newsletter, they have a section at the bottom giving Research Update. There they say that Phase 1 will open at the end of this month and will be run by the Jenner Institute. Fingers crossed!
 
There will be one more MAP symposium on March 24-25, 2017 in Philadelphia:

http://humanpara.org/2017-map-conference/

From my understanding, Human Paratuberculosis Fundation is new legal structure of http://TheCrohnsInfection.org

Saddened by the fact that attendance is limited to researchers only, as I understood.
Thanks for sharing Zim! I've been so busy getting Human Para together that I haven't had time to give out any info here. Yes, there's a conference coming in a month and it is limited to researchers. But that may be good, because they are presenting their research to each other and then doing a working session where they hope to come to some type of consensus on how they will all move MAP science forward. That's REALLY good for patients, and patient participation may come at the expense of having time for collaboration on the part of the docs. I know from this collaboration that they are all still very focused on the patients needs and moving treatment applications surrounding human MAP forward for the benefit of those who are sick.

The organizers of the conference know patients are VERY interested, so they are allowing the Human Para Foundation to come and record all of the presentations and tape interviews with the researchers, which will all be put out on the site as soon as possible. They will all be freely accessible. No one will have to pay to access this content. As soon as we have more info on attendees and presentations topics, I will post that on the HPF conference page.
 
Hi Irishgal,

What do you mean you have been taking an Anti-MAP therapy? Are you referring to the clinical trial in Oxford? Have they already begun phase 1 of the trial or is there still time to register?
 
Hi Irishgal,

What do you mean you have been taking an Anti-MAP therapy? Are you referring to the clinical trial in Oxford? Have they already begun phase 1 of the trial or is there still time to register?
I believe she is taking a combination of oral antibiotics similar/the same as what is offered in the Redhill Map phase 3 trial.

The anti-map Vaccine trial in Oxford in in phase 1, which means it is being tested on healthy adults with no illnesses and no Crohn's/IBD to see if it is first safe. Phase 2 trials will begin I think in 2018, which is where the vaccine will be tested on patients with Crohn's disease to see whether it is effective at treating Crohn's.
 
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