Medical Cannabis

Crohn's Disease Forum

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Do you think weed should be legal for everyone, or just for medical usage, or neither

  • Everyone

    Votes: 73 67.6%
  • Just for medical

    Votes: 31 28.7%
  • Neither

    Votes: 4 3.7%

  • Total voters
    108
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
86
Medical Cannabis is still a new treatment to many diseases and illness's. Crohn's disease and other IBD's are considered available to medical cannabis in only 14 out of the 50 states. I have tried it a few times(illegally) and it does make me feel better all around, i don't feel nauseous at all, i don't have any stomach cramps, and i even have fewer stools a day. I am still new to crohn's and I'm learning every day what makes me feel better and weed is one of those things. I only do it once at the most. So my questions to you guys is would or have you ever smoke weed due to your IBD? Also what is your opinion on medical weed with your IBD?
 
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I don't smoke, but I think it should be legal for everyone and they should tax the hell out of it.

California could sure use the money.
 
I'm with CrohnsHobo... alcohol and cigarettes are legal although bad for our health. Although I wouldn't agree with making "harder" and more addicting drugs legal, if we legalized marijuana at least in some way we could control its distribution as well as make revenue from taxing it.
 
uab grad student said:
I'm with CrohnsHobo... alcohol and cigarettes are legal although bad for our health. Although I wouldn't agree with making "harder" and more addicting drugs legal, if we legalized marijuana at least in some way we could control its distribution as well as make revenue from taxing it.

The state of Washington already has some very progressive medical marijuana laws on the books, and there's a strong movement to bring a full legalization initiative to the ballot. In addition to the arguments already mentioned, the laws against pot cost huge amounts of money to enforce. The people behind the initiative in my state claim $100 million annually for the ~12,000 people processed through the legal system every year in this state for marijuana violations. Not only is this a huge waste of money and resources, it leads to many otherwise decent citizens having their lives derailed for a relatively benign activity, people who take up law enforcement time and space which should be aimed at violent criminals. Also, as with alcohol prohibition, the drug's illegal status funnels huge amounts of money into the pockets of organized crime, money which would otherwise be going not only to taxes, but also to legitimate small business people. The laws against marijuana also impede the domestic production of hemp, a very versatile and environmentally-friendly natural fiber.

I don't smoke pot (or tobacco, for that matter) either. I tried MMJ a couple times for my gut issues, without benefit, and I don't personally find it all that interesting otherwise. I think it's great that these initiatives are gaining momentum here & in California, and I think Oregon is also working on this. People must remember however that even if ALL the states were to legalize marijuana (not likely anytime soon), it's use, possession etc. will STILL be against federal law, enforcement of which will be at the whim of whatever mindset is currently in power.
 
It does not help to cure anything. Its like taking morphine or something to help you tolerate symptoms. And that thing that I am against is how strongly it will embed its self into ones routine to help "cope" with things. The physical addiction is very limited but the emotional one is very very pronounced. It's a crutch and its hard to kick.
 
kenny said:
It does not help to cure anything. Its like taking morphine or something to help you tolerate symptoms. And that thing that I am against is how strongly it will embed its self into ones routine to help "cope" with things. The physical addiction is very limited but the emotional one is very very pronounced. It's a crutch and its hard to kick.

Do you think it's worse than alcohol, in terms of it being an emotional addiction and a crutch?
 
I personally don't... I've got issues with alcohol, but then again I've seen it wreck lives. I've seen it affect my life directly. I know people who smoke pot and they just eat a lot and stay at home by themselves. Never affected me. Not saying I'd ever smoke pot... I don't think its a good idea to inhale any kind of smoke. A THC pill or vapors? yeah... that could be useful.
 
ameslouise said:
Do you think it's worse than alcohol, in terms of it being an emotional addiction and a crutch?

The thing is, seeking altered states of consciousness is a human characteristic. There are 8000 year old cave paintings in Algeria believed to be psychedelic mushrooms. Opium poppies were cultivated in Mesopotamia at least as early as 3400 BCE, and the ancient Greek historian Herodotus mentions Cannabis in the 5th century BCE. No law is going to stop this. The only rational approach is reasonable regulation with an emphasis on harm reduction. It's much like prostitution in that regard.

Unfortunately, most laws around these issues tend to be passed by demagogues with hidden agendas, based upon appeals to some even less laudable human tendencies. The laws against pot in the US were passed largely through convincing people that its use was an African American practice, and that while under its influence, these people would attack "our women". One major supporter of these laws was obscenely rich newspaper owner William Randolph Hearst, who had a huge stake in the paper industry, and wanted to eliminate hemp as a competitor to his wood based product. It was once possible to buy all kinds of opium based products over the counter in the US, in the form of patent medicines. The majority of addicts where middle class, and upper middle class white females, whose use of these drugs affected virtually no one adversely. But the public was convinced that the use of opium was a feature of the recent (and widely reviled) Chinese immigrant population, and that they used it to entrap (again) white women into the sex trade. Nonsense, of course, but it's so easy to whip the masses into a frenzy.

Unfortunately, The desire to get high is far from human kind's most regrettable trait :(
 
David for president!! Brad if it works for you, I don't care if it's a sugar pill you should use it.
 
kenny said:
It does not help to cure anything. Its like taking morphine or something to help you tolerate symptoms. And that thing that I am against is how strongly it will embed its self into ones routine to help "cope" with things. The physical addiction is very limited but the emotional one is very very pronounced. It's a crutch and its hard to kick.
I dont know if it is like morphine and just masks the symptoms, but for me after i do it i feel better for a few days, so I think it is actually helping and not just helping me tolerate the symptoms but even if all it does it help tolerate the symptoms i would still do it because when i do it i forget i even have crohn's like that how good i feel.
 
PeninsulaLil said:
Well said David! I second the nomination.

Lilly

Yeah.

If only I didn't have all those POT BUSTS on my record... :eek2:

JOKING, ONLY JOKING! :ylol2:

Thanks very much for the compliments! :)

BTW, wouldn't just love to know who the 4 people were who voted "neither"? smile.gif
 
katiesue1506 said:
I personally don't... I've got issues with alcohol, but then again I've seen it wreck lives. I've seen it affect my life directly. I know people who smoke pot and they just eat a lot and stay at home by themselves. Never affected me. Not saying I'd ever smoke pot... I don't think its a good idea to inhale any kind of smoke. A THC pill or vapors? yeah... that could be useful.

Yeah, I've never seen an episode of "Intervention" where someone was sent to rehab for pot.

Vaporizer? I heard Willie Nelson talking about it on Howard Stern last week. Said it's a pretty good way to get the effects without the harmful inhaling. Pot brownies are pretty effective too...

There are lots of folks out there taking codeine and narcotics for the pain associated with Crohn's. If pot helps, even though there is the harmful inhaling aspect, I say go for it. It's less addictive than narcotics and it doesn't slow the digestive tract to a halt like narcotics can.

David - thanks for the background/history. Interesting, esp. the part about Hearst.

-Amy
 
I think we could save so much money if it were legal. How many people are sitting in jail sucking our tax dollars over POT. If it were legal and taxed, criminals wouldnt make money on it and the government could make money.

Wasnt there a study done saying that smoking pot does not increase the chances of lung cancer?

I have used it for pain and its awesome. It also helped me eat when I didnt feel like eating. And I could still function while on it.
 
I dont know where I sit on the subject except I worry about children getting their hands on it. If they are under the age of 21, their brain isn't fully developed yet and can cause all sorts of issues. There is also the issue of people losing motivation while on it. I worked in a drug and alcohol treatment centre and a lot of the weed is laced with something, esp. LSD. It is highly addictive so it gets people going back. I also worked with a diversion officer and he told me that he has had a lot of the weed analyzed and most of it contains mould, or other harmful substances. They wet the weed so it weighs heavier in the bag and the dealers get more money for less. Since it is wet, it goes mouldy after a short period of time.

Im not against weed - to each his own and I have smoked it before...I am of the opinion of self-determination with limits. One woman I worked with use to smoke weed before she went to bed. She was so paranoid she was terrified to pick up her infant if she cried during the night. In Canada, the child protection law is you can not smoke weed if you are the only caretaker - if one of you is sober, then CAS can not remove your children from your care. It is not decriminalized in Canada.
I agree with a lot of the comments made about the taxing.

As for it not causing lung cancer, the diversion officer would warn the youth/harm reduction, that if you did smoke weed use a water bong as it removes some of the impurities that are cancer causing. I have read though that it isn't so who knows... from what I have seen of chronic users, after awhile they lose weight and become really foggy/obscure behaviour. It takes 1 month to 12 weeks to get out of your system.
Again, my concern is making access easier for youth if it is legalized. I have heard youth addicts tell me that they cant find it - "it's dry out there", so I assume it has made it a little more difficult for them.
 
ameslouise said:
Do you think it's worse than alcohol, in terms of it being an emotional addiction and a crutch?
I think so yes. Alcohol is so much easier to access and perhaps a bit more dilute in its consumption. The level of harm to society from Alcohol abuse is certainly understated but I think we have all experienced some form of how sharply addiction escalates once you start with pot and its derivatives. I am really stretching with trying to outline what I think on the question so I'll try to use examples to help me out.

when I was a teen splitting a 6pack with a buddy was probably not the greatest thing to be doing at 14 or 15, but it was better than buying a mickey. Once I started with the pot at 16 it was a much more destructive and focused consumption. Alcohol becomes a background to the pot high and Hash/oil a bit more yet. And it is true that it is a gateway drug. Scoring poppies and scraping the resin onto a paper to roll your weed in is a little step. Or dropping a bit of pcp onto the paper. Or chewing some shrooms. They're natural too right? Once your there the cocaine and other party favors are floating around within easy reach and you are in this whole other social scene.

But what I found dangerous is that the problems of everyday life are a heck of a lot easier to doge by sitting and taking a puff than by having a couple of beer. Alcohol is a depressant and you are more likely to end up tripping over a chair or stumbling around like a goof if you try to bury your head in a bottle. And yea DT's suck for sure. But dope works too good. It's easy to put off dealing with things and keep them at bay as they build into huge unaddressed problems if you keep a pipe of weed in your jacket pocket.

Its nice to sit back and have a couple of beer at the end of the day to relax I suppose and my hat is off to those who can. Maybe they could only smoke 1/2 a J once every second Sunday or something. I know I sure as heck could not. More like a quarter ounce a week for personal casual use. I went in for multiple cross addiction counseling about 15 years ago and kicking the alcohol was easy. It was the social disconnection from the pot that took a bit of extra work. 10 years of spouting things like "Natures way of staying Hi" and "Its better than all the pharmacuticals that soccer mom's pop to stay happy" were pretty entrenched in my attitude. I can remember telling my (Addiction Research Foundation)ARF counselor I really missed watching Star Trek. He asked my why, and I told him all the colors were dull and it didn't seem as fun anymore to watch it without being stoned. It took me a long time to regain appreciation for an unenhanced version of life and that is what I think lies behind the danger of Medicinal Mj.
 
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All good points from both Kenny and Keona.

For me, I can only go on personal experience. I found quitting smoking and and quitting coffee WAY more difficult than giving up booze 8 months ago when I was really sick with my Crohns. I smoked TONS of pot in my early 20s. Never led me to anything more harsh and there was plenty of opportunity for me to access more hard core drugs.

I think everyone has a different addiction threshold. Some people have the gene and other people don't.
 
on the weight thing. I was told that THC accumulates in fatty tissues and your body will cannibalize them looking for the THC. That is the small physical addiction thing I mentioned earlier.

The term "Burnt Out" hasn't come up yet. "So burnt your crispy"
I could sit for 6 hours flicking the TV remote trying to watch TV and forgetting every 30 seconds what I was watching. That kind of thing happen to people using MMJ or more casual users?

When you saw all the other dope in that social circle ameslouise? Did you see other people around you slipping into that trap? I think once the door for pot is opened further in North America it will just open access even wider to all the other stuff behind it. We already have a heck of a problem with E around here. Its finding it's way into public schools now. I'd rather not see the kids on pot,E,huffing paint cans or banging shots. But I think once we have parents getting a script for pot it will increase the prevalence of other drug use.

btw I really appreciate everyone else's view on this. It would be great if it were something that could help with less negative effects than some of the other treatment methods such as antidepressants, opiates and what not.
 
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Brad wrote,"even if all it does it help tolerate the symptoms i would still do it because when i do it i forget i even have crohn's like that how good i feel."

I don't have crohn's so maybe I don't know but is there any other pain reliever that this statement could be made about.

I think all prescription drugs have the potential for abuse especially pain relievers and muscle relaxers. I still say marijuana is relatively benign compared to say oxycontin or morphine etc..

Also, reading back over this thread, it seems nearly everyone smoked pot at some time. The point is if kids want to smoke they will whether it's legal or not. Oh and alcohol is not a prescribed med. and no one on here is suggesting that marijuana should be made available to the general public though personally I don't know that it's any worse than alcohol and tobacco.
 
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I agree, that if kids want to smoke it they will. The thing is, I have heard youth tell me that they cant find it "it is dry". "Or it will be ready next week", etc. I think if it was legalized, it would be available 24/7. I don't think we ought to make it easier for them to get.

I like Kenny's comments. Weed is known as the gateway drug. I think it does contribute to people trying harder drugs. Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of the weed is laced with something. So they are trying something harsher whether they chose to or not. It wasn't long ago that Canada had an influx of youth in the ER because they were smoking something out of a field that was poisonous. There is also the new synthetic weed they have out now known as K2...and very dangerous. It looks a lot like weed, and smells like weed.

http://scienceblogs.com/terrasig/2010/02/k2_spice_jwh018_marijuana.php

I also think if youth see their parents smoking drugs, they will be able to say "well, you use drugs, why cant I?"
I dont know, I don't think weed is the same as it was 10 years ago. It is a lot more potent.
Maybe decriminalize it like BC has but not make it legal?? I wonder how it has worked out in Amsterdam?..but then again, I think it is regulated there.
 
If kids watched their parents suffer w/ crohn's year after year and then find some relief after smoking a little pot, I'd hope they'd think of it as any other med..

This discussion seems to have devolved into marijuana's use as a recreational drug. Hell all drugs are bad if not used as intended. Brad specifically asked about marijuana's medical value. I'm sure there may be other drugs that can do the same things as mj but are they any safer?

That would be the best way to win an argument against med. marij.. Show me meds that are better and safer.
 
If kids watched their parents suffer w/ crohn's year after year and then find some relief after smoking a little pot, I'd hope they'd think of it as any other med..

This discussion seems to have devolved into marijuana's use as a recreational drug. Hell all drugs are bad if not used as intended. Brad specifically asked about marijuana's medical value. I'm sure there may be other drugs that can do the same things as mj but are they any safer?

That would be the best way to win an argument against med. marij.. Show me meds that are better and safer.

To make it so you dont care so much if your flairing or to help fix the flair?
 
If something could get the flair under control and take away the mental stress of the disease... That would be a dream come true!
 
Actually, Im not trying to win an argument, just sharing my thoughts on the poll question:
"Do you think weed should be legal for everyone, or just for medical usage, or neither"

I answered just for medical usage, as my previous posts might have suggested.
 
If something could get the flair under control and take away the mental stress of the disease... That would be a dream come true!

sure would be. That whole line of thought about SCD and food intolerance sure sounds attractive sometimes as they make it sound like a cure. I suppose my position on the MMJ is that I would rather see people finding their way though something like that or similar to the path I am on with Immune suppression. Than MMJ in fear that MMJ would just be masking the pain and unhappiness rather than driving at the root cause to try and eliminate it.
 
Kenny I concede your point. Mj is strictly a pain inhibitor and symptom masker but is it any worse or better than any other such med. ie. aspirin, tylenol or prescrip. pain reliever/muscle relaxer all of which mj does.

I seems to me that it would be less likely to adversely affect the digestive system than oral drugs.

I'm with you, I'm not gonna be blowin' my ten yr old son shotguns. But when he gets older, I couldn't say I'd fault him if he found some relief from it.
 
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I can tell you that the Oral dose Morphine I took for a few weeks sure made a mess of things! I was on one type of Morphine pill 2x a day plus a different one for breakthrough pain. That was after a 10 day stay in hospital with 7 of it on a morphine drip and the later 3 testing to make sure the pills would be sufficient. In that situation I also see the value in considering MMJ. I really gave my GF a hard time at that point in my illness. It was probably the darkest point in those 6 months of wearing a drain and bag and living in my PJ's.
 
...I think everyone has a different addiction threshold. Some people have the gene and other people don't....

I have to whole-heartedly agree with ames on this point... I have seen and still associate with many people who use marajuana (as a recreational drug) who have no desire at all to move to anything "stronger". I have also seen many people totally wreck their lives by being addicted to gambling... they don't drink, they don't smoke, they gamble... usually gambling their life savings away and not having any money for food for their kids. I have also known people who are able to use cocaine as a recreational drug, and have no ill effects on their lifestyle... as a matter of fact they moved on to become very respectable, well-off members of our communities... and STILL use cocaine as a recreational drug. I think, like ames pointed out, it's totally the personality that controls the addiction.

As for "medical" marajuana, yes, there is the (unfortunate?) side effect of getting high, but reading other forums (specifically, marajuana user forums), MANY of the people who are trying MJ for medical uses (Crohn's included) are looking for MJ that provides relief to their symptoms WITHOUT getting the high... they still want to work and function in society. Many appear to use it specifically for cramping (doesn't seem to do much for severe pain) and to increase appetite. We all know it gives you the "munchies"...lol, even if you haven't tried it yourself, it is fairly common knowledge and often joked about... so it can work well for this. But the other we (in the health feild) know that it CAN do, is work on smooth muscle receptors: ie relaxing smooth muscles so they don't spasm so much - and the intestine happens to be a smooth muscle.

Whether or not it is any better or worse for you than alcohol or other medications, we DO know that other pain meds as well as Crohn meds, and alcohol, are very hard on the liver. To date, I have seen no research on how MJ is metabolized, so we don't really know how hard it is on the liver. One thing we CAN say in the health feild is that, we have seen MANY people who indulged in alcohol over the years, get very sick and or die from cirrhosis of the liver (ie. liver shuts down)... while we have not seen (or at least have not seen as much) cirrhosis in pot smokers.......

As to whether or not it should be legalized, either for medical users or recreational users, I just honestly don't know. There is the whole "tax" issue, as long as the taxes were put to good use... (and we all know how often THAT happens! LOL). There are people that DO use it for medical purposes... for some it seems to be the only thing that brings relief.... should they be sent to jail and heavily fined for using something that helps them get on with their daily lives? How well can they support their family if THAT happens? Another point in favor may also be that, if it is legalized and can be sold in liquor stores and such, would the crime around it lessen?

But that is just my two cents... lol :redface:
 
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Given that we cant tolerate NSAIDs, the various cannabinoids in marijuana are some of the few actual anti-inflammatory analgesics that are effective for the relief of Crohn's symptoms. Its a shame it is illegal still in so many states.
 
I have recently smoked with some friends and I'm not sure how I feel about it..

It helped stop the bleeding and other unpleasantness for me, and helped with the abdominal pain, but it gave me a bad case of acid reflux. I also stupidly smoked while on Entocort and the combination of the two did very unpleasant things to my head.
 
While I don't agree with it morally, I do think that it would help people out. Whether it's for helping people cope by aiding in people's digestive health or acting as a pain killer, people are going to undoubtedly keep doing it and the sooner it's legalized, the better. We can focus on more important issues and we could focus our attention on the REAL hardened criminals out there.
 
I'm a strong proponent of medical marijuana but am very undecided on full legalization. I can't imagine what the effects would be if it were as accessible as alcohol. That being said I wish there were more research into potential benefits it could have for various diseases. Especially crohn's.
 
Ummm. I say whatever works, works.

However, I learned in ochem that it deteriorates brains cells so I sure as heck ain't smokin'.

-Mary

____________________________
Diagnosed: Crohn’s December ‘09
Gastritis August ’09, TMJD 1992
Surgeries: 1-terminal ileum removal
Treatments: Current- pentasa
Past- pred. aciphex, ranitidine
Other: Multi-vitamin, calcium,
digestive enzymes, probiotics,
fish oil, and ginger
 
I think that I am with CrohnsHobo and they should leagalize it across the board, but tax the piss out of it...but at the least they should make it leagal everywhere for medicinal use. There are so many strains that have been bread to target specific ailments like headaches, insomnia, chronic pain, digestive issues, and there is a big difference between "street weed" and "medicinal marijuana." Most people on the street don't appreciate the plant's beauty or care about proper having a proper curing process, hindering the plant's full potential. It is just that, a plant, in fact you are using the flower...no chemicals or synthetics needed to produce it and if used responsibly has been proven to be beneficial. I am a medical marijuana patient through Sentry Medical here in WA, and I wouldn't call myself addicted or dependent on it because I do go through periods where I don't smoke, vaporize, eat it, or even think about using it. However, it does seem help when I am nauseated, when there is chronic abdominal pain or joint paint, or periods when I loose my appetite. I find that digestion is the best method for digestive issues and nausea and sometimes the vaproizer comes in handy, but I do smoke to ease the pains of migratory arthritis or having a bad anxiety attack.

Sara
________
Diagnosed: Crohn's 2008
Meds: tried- Prednisone, Mesalamine, Entocort EC currently- Azathioprin 100mg/day
and possibly incorporating Cimzia
 
i smoke it and many of my friends have smoked/ or do still smoke it... its a tough one about legalising it though..my brother smoked it when he was younger and it brought on depression which he still has today..and i can think of many other people whose lives it has effected..but saying that if you abuse anything there are always concequences...some people can smoke it for years and it never bothers them other people it affects them in very little time...at the end of the day though if people wanna smoke it they will anyway be it legal or illegal and you would be taking money of the criminals...i sure would like to see it legalised for people that have medical conditions... now where did i leave my skins!!!
 
This is quite topical for me, caught my 16yr old son skinning up last week!
We had a very long discussion about it, he is very intelligent, knows the risks, knows it could lead onto harder stuff, (if you're that daft) and has had all the education about drugs in school, and argued with me about it. He explained that beer and alcohol makes him puke, he can't tolerate it, and in keeping in with the in crowd, drinks cos of peer pressure. Last week someone gave him a joint, and he told me it was the best laugh he's ever had, everyone was relaxed, no fighting, no hangover the next morning. He knows I've smoked it, I hammered it for years for period pains, and I still do, it works for my joint pain! We compromised, he's not to skin up at home or smoke it, and if he does have a joint, only at weekends. He's studying for his A levels.
His argument, against alcohol, was the destruction it causes, the devastation it caused us when he was 8, someone who was drunk battered his Dad over the head with a skateboard. His Dad is left with a brain injury. You only have to go to A&E on a Friday or Saturday night to see all the alcohol related incidents there, car accidents, assaults and domestic violence etc. And it's legal!
I've never heard of anyone who smokes pot to do any of these things, and I know loads of them! Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd rather my son smoke a joint at weekends than end up in A&E with alcohol poisoning or worse, dead!
Use it, don't abuse it!
 
Interesting article Winemaker
I think it should be decriminalised or declassed, the debate rages on over here.
 
Interesting article Winemaker
I think it should be decriminalised or declassed, the debate rages on over here.

Here too Joan!! I'd love to see the effect decriminalizing might have on the Mexican drug gangs that continue to terrorize the border towns.
 
Here too Joan!! I'd love to see the effect decriminalizing might have on the Mexican drug gangs that continue to terrorize the border towns.

I thought that was more to do with the cocaine trade. When is the Proposition 9 vote? I don't now a lot about it, but it seems pretty sensible.
 
My husband came home yesterday with a bud. He's been missing alot of work lately because of my illness. Some guy gave him a little MJ to help me with my pain. My husband is totally supportive of me smoking it. He hates to see me in so much pain. He's on board with anything that will help at this point.
Boy, I haven't smoked in years. I remember the first time I smoked MJ. It was amazing. My friend and I never laughed so much in our lives. I was a chronic smoker for years. In fact, during those years, that I enjoyed remission. I stopped smoking after becoming pregnant with my son. Within a year, I was in a devastating flare. Had my second resection. Go figure.
Now I have to figure out how to smoke it. No papers or bowl. Gonna have to fashion my own method I guess.
 
Now I have to figure out how to smoke it. No papers or bowl. Gonna have to fashion my own method I guess.

An apple or soda can would work or just go out and get a cheap glass pipe. LOL...I used to use and apple when I was a teenager! Good luck!
 
Sara Lee, I forgot about the old soda can pipe trick. I'm not sure I'd recommend it though Julie. I can remember some vile tasting smoke as the ink or paint burns off the can. It can't be good for you!! I've never heard of using an apple but I'd say it's a better choice! Might taste good too!! Good luck!!
 
I use a pipe, water pipe, or roll a joint at home, but I do want to get a vaporizer. Now, I always a dugout on me when I go out for those instances that I need the medication for pains. Keep in mind I live in Texas where you get put away longer for having an ounce of weed, than having a meth lab. -_-"

For those that don't know, this is a dugout:
images
 
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for me it's either a pipe or rolled with tobacco. It took me awhile to find a pipe that didn't look like it was designed by a hippy.
 
I used to use a soda can (wouldn't recommend it) or an apple. Ended up getting a nice little vaporizer to help my lungs and conserve some weed. Definitely a worthwhile investment if you'll be smoking long term, I think.
 
I do agree that if you are going to plan for long-term usage, you should definately invest in either a glass peice or a vaporizer. I personally prefer my triple-perk to all other methods, but I do have a personal vaporizer that is very nice and I also like digestion (but only when I use bubble-hash melded products).
 
weed use for crohns

I use weed every evening as that seems to be when my crohns is most active i use an iolite vapouriser as its the safest and most effective method of inhaling in my opinion, it brings me massive relief from cramps, reduces frequency and generally calms things down, if i didnt work full time i'd use it during the day ha
 
Reply to Medical Cannabis Thread

Hey everyone! I used to smoke marijuana for cramps/nausea/pain and it works well. I started researching it though and there are plenty of studies that attest to the "healing" properties that cannabis has on the intestinal epithelial walls. I've been experimenting with different extractions and ways to use it after I read about it "curing" other Crohn's cases. Others have said that it has put them into remission and keeps them there.

I've started to extract the cannabinoids (th, cbd) by heating them up in goat's milk that I drink 3-5 times a day before meals. It coats my stomach and gives me relief before the food gets there. I've only been drinking it for about a 2 weeks now and after losing weight for 8 months, I've actually gained 4 lbs without changing any other parts of my diet.

Here is a woman that says this marijuana milk put her into remission after almost dying from her Crohn's. Her husband, Brett, is really sweet and will talk to you for like an hour about his wife's story.
marijuanasaveslives.org

Also, I met a woman "Shona Banda" who says that marijuana oil (she uses a vaporizer) cured her terminal case of Crohn's.
youtube.com/watch?v=4cQrT0sDxyc

I have tons of links to research on MMJ & Crohn's on my blog.
crohnscrusade.blogspot.com

Just wanted to share what has given me relief and hope :) Nikki
 
Thank you nikki, that was very interesting. As a matter of fact that video made me watch RUN FROM THE CURE.

I'll make sure to keep track of your blog.

It's too bad that I had to temporarily quit since my sis and nieces moved in with me (don't want CPS to rear their ugly head), but once I get on SSD I plan on moving out so I can take my medication.
 
It does not help to cure anything. Its like taking morphine or something to help you tolerate symptoms. And that thing that I am against is how strongly it will embed its self into ones routine to help "cope" with things. The physical addiction is very limited but the emotional one is very very pronounced. It's a crutch and its hard to kick.

your wrong.
 
Ummm. I say whatever works, works.

However, I learned in ochem that it deteriorates brains cells so I sure as heck ain't smokin'.

-Mary
QUOTE]

Wrong. There are no studies showing there are brain cell effecting toxins in cannabis. Holding your breath can kill more brain cell than smoking cannabis. I've been a smoker for 5 years and I am an extremley intelligent human being. Whatever you "learned" comes from your wrongful education. Shit the school systems are teaching some b.s nowadays. Kills braincells? This aint cigs its a plant from nature.
 
your wrong.

Please show some respect.

Kenny is not wrong. Marijuana has not cured anything, it can help to control symptoms and in some cases helped put people in remission. The entire point of Kenny's comment was regarding how it can be addictive, albeit not a severe physical addiction. His was focussed on the psychological addiction. People can get addicted to anything, because only a small portion of addictions are actual physical, the largest part of an addiction is mental.l. Now in regards to physical addictions, they can be anything. Your body goes through some form of withdrawal for anything consumed in any manner on a regular basis that is suddenly stopped, because your body has to some way cope with the sudden absence from your body. Anything you suddenly stop consuming after ingesting it for a prolonged period will cause a change because your system has adapted to it being there and that is a physical addiction, and it's also "you're" not your.

Wrong. There are no studies showing there are brain cell effecting toxins in cannabis. Holding your breath can kill more brain cell than smoking cannabis. I've been a smoker for 5 years and I am an extremley intelligent human being. Whatever you "learned" comes from your wrongful education. Shit the school systems are teaching some b.s nowadays. Kills braincells? This aint cigs its a plant from nature.

Once again, I'l bring up the topic of showing respect, you can't just show up and and start stating that the people's information is wrong. The tone of your post as well some things that you wrote are quite insulting.

There are no toxins *specific* to cannabis that kill brain cells. Smoking anything will kill brain cells as it introduces toxins into the blood stream, those toxins will enter your brain, and brain cells will die.

Cigarettes are a plant from nature, tobacco is a plant.
And on that topic.
Pot is worse for you than cigarettes, the average cigarette smoker will smoke more cigarettes in a day than the average pot smoker will consume in joints. On top of that the majority of cigarettes have filters, pot does not. It is the quantity of cigarettes consumed not the actual tobacco that makes it worse than smoking pot.

With that said, 1969 welcome to the forum.
It's late, and time for bed.
I'm going to go roll a joint, and scurry scuttle off to bed.
 
Pot is worse for you than cigarettes, the average cigarette smoker will smoke more cigarettes in a day than the average pot smoker will consume in joints. On top of that the majority of cigarettes have filters, pot does not. It is the quantity of cigarettes consumed not the actual tobacco that makes it worse than smoking pot.
It is true it can cause more tar to form in your lungs, causing emphysema, but it does not cause cancer. There are carcinogens in the smoke, but the cannabinoids null the carcinogens. Now, a way to get around the emphysema it causes is using a vaporizer, where the marijuana isn't lit on fire, but just heated to the point that the chemicals vaporize off, thus cutting down the tar and being more healthy.
 
Ok so this is how it is for me. I never smoke MJ when I was younger. I was too scared of drugs and getting caught (I was a bit of a goody-goody)! Yet after being diagnosed with CD my doctor put in a request for my medical marajuana card, and trust me it helps! Although it does not take it away completely, it certaintly numbs almost all of the pain, and calms my stress level down so that my body can relax. I'm still very careful when I use it, having two small children, I only use it at night after they go to sleep and smoke it outside so they are not exposed to it. MJ is also great for this disease because no matter what symptoms you have, there are different strains in order to help those specific problems. I have also found that it helps with my appitiate, which I badly need!
 
I only use it at night after they go to sleep and smoke it outside so they are not exposed to it

I know this doesn't apply to you, but isn't it hysterical that when we're younger we had to hide pot from our parents and now we have to hide it from our kids? That's probably the worst part of the whole deal. To enjoy it you have to be in the closet pretty much.
 
Please show some respect.

Kenny is not wrong. Marijuana has not cured anything, it can help to control symptoms and in some cases helped put people in remission. The entire point of Kenny's comment was regarding how it can be addictive, albeit not a severe physical addiction. His was focussed on the psychological addiction. People can get addicted to anything, because only a small portion of addictions are actual physical, the largest part of an addiction is mental.l. Now in regards to physical addictions, they can be anything. Your body goes through some form of withdrawal for anything consumed in any manner on a regular basis that is suddenly stopped, because your body has to some way cope with the sudden absence from your body. Anything you suddenly stop consuming after ingesting it for a prolonged period will cause a change because your system has adapted to it being there and that is a physical addiction, and it's also "you're" not your.



Once again, I'l bring up the topic of showing respect, you can't just show up and and start stating that the people's information is wrong. The tone of your post as well some things that you wrote are quite insulting.

There are no toxins *specific* to cannabis that kill brain cells. Smoking anything will kill brain cells as it introduces toxins into the blood stream, those toxins will enter your brain, and brain cells will die.

Cigarettes are a plant from nature, tobacco is a plant.
And on that topic.
Pot is worse for you than cigarettes, the average cigarette smoker will smoke more cigarettes in a day than the average pot smoker will consume in joints. On top of that the majority of cigarettes have filters, pot does not. It is the quantity of cigarettes consumed not the actual tobacco that makes it worse than smoking pot.

With that said, 1969 welcome to the forum.
It's late, and time for bed.
I'm going to go roll a joint, and scurry scuttle off to bed.
You should try getting a tree perculators on a bong. Filters to the purest smoke. But pot is not worse for you than ciggarettes if you roll a nice dubee with a homemade filter or use a vaporizer and or a perculated bong
 
You should try getting a tree perculators on a bong. Filters to the purest smoke. But pot is not worse for you than ciggarettes if you roll a nice dubee with a homemade filter or use a vaporizer and or a perculated bong

The big problem is there is no such thing as "pure" smoke, all smoke is bad for you.
On a gram per gram basis, smoking pot by any means other than a vaporizer is worse for you that cigarettes. But pot is not smoked in the same quantity, therefore the use is generally better for you because you aren't smoking the same amount. Yes there are less carcinogens, but unless you are using actual manufactured filters, home made ones don't cut it, trust me on this, a joint does more harm than because of smoke inhalation than a regular filtered cigarette. Cannabis burns at a higher temp, causing a more damaging smoke and releasing more "junk" into the smoke.

Water pipe safety is a myth, it cools the smoke and removes some of the tar, making it seem safer because it's a lighter draw. It's not as bad for you as a joint, but still worse than a filtered cigarette.

I don't have an anti-marijuana stance, I am very much pro, I'm waiting for my cannabis club membership to be processed. I'm a daily smoker of both, and I know for a fact that overall the cigarettes are worse than the pot due to the volume smoked.
But anyone who says smoking marijuana is safe is a fool, and believing all of the pro-marijuana rhetoric which is mostly based on anecdotal evidence.

The only safe methods of consumption are vaporisation and through edibles. I'm aware of everything I put into my body, and massive research is put into it before I start a treatment method. I actually looked into before I started rather than relying on the medical advice of pot heads. There very often is a huge difference between recreational users and those who use medicinally. Those two categories will often over lap, however those who started as a medical patient will look into the mechanics of it, why it helps and what it harms. The patient sees it as medication, whereas the recreational user just likes getting high.
 
I just read through this entire post. In my teen years I smoked quite a bit of pot, so when a doctor told me to try it again for pain management I went out and found a bag. I swear pot is WAY more potent than it was in the 80ies and 90ies . I have to wonder what they have mixed in it to make it give off that effect. Yes I know you can grow certain strains that have a higher THC level but this was crazy. The "high" from 2 puffs made me paranoid, miserable and still in pain.

I also have to wonder about standardization. You truly have no idea how much medicine you are getting when you buy a bag from your local hippy. For me to feel like it was truly medicine I think standardization is critical. I also feel that an across the board delivery is needed, such as only selling THC in a liquid form you measure out like baby medicine.

If pot helps you feel human while in a monster flare up, I say go for it. We suffer enough. If it makes it so you can eat, great we need to get vitamins in us. If it makes it so you don't puke even better. I don't think pot should be used as a treatment on its own though. It isn't curing the disease, it isn't stopping the inflammation in your guts, just making it so you don't feel it. That in itself can be dangerous if you don't know how severe your disease is from your symptoms.

I personally would rather be around a stoned person than a drunk one, any day of the week. Stoned people are not violent, they are not rude, they don't trip on you and don't start puking.

Legalized you would no longer deal with additives that dealers put in, the cost would go way down, our justice system would no longer be taxed by the guy who smokes pot when he gets home from work, instead of having a beer. The cons to legalization seem pretty far and few between in my mind. Kids getting a hold of it, sorry every 12 year old I know has a pot connection if they want to use it, it is easier for kids to get pills and pot than it is a beer.

On a side note, has anyone tried "herbal incense"? I see it in the gas stations here and wonder how bad it is for you. I know there is a huge debate going on over the legality of it.
 
I agree with some of what you have said except the following.

I don't think pot should be used as a treatment on its own though. It isn't curing the disease, it isn't stopping the inflammation in your guts, just making it so you don't feel it. That in itself can be dangerous if you don't know how severe your disease is from your symptoms.

Marijuana does have an anti-inflammatory effect, it acts as a mild TNF inhibitor. This is due to the existence of CBD2 receptors in the gut. They were found a year or two back during a study conducted in conjunction by the universities of Bristol and Bath.

Some, but not all, can control their disease with marijuana, it depends on the severity of the disease as well as the amount consumed, as well as the method of delivery. Ingestion works far better than inhalation.

The strength has as much to with the method of cultivation as it does the strain. The THC and other CBDs are contained on the outside of the plant, more growers, at least those who grow on a larger scale, are using hydroponics, therefore eliminating the water that comes in contact with the buds. This is no longer hippies growing marijuana mixed among their tomato plants in the backyard.

And I retract part of what I wrote earlier, as it turns out smoking a joint is less harmful than a water pipe or bong, as it self filters as the smoke passes through it.
 
Interesting.. So its a natural biologic with the anti-tnf? I assume to a much lesser degree than Remicade or Humira. Are there any gut side effects like most nsaids?

It seems I should do more research on this, where do you get your information? I am unsure of most of what is on the net, considering some pot-head possibly wrote it. I want true scientific facts so I can make an educated choice about this, and bring it up to my doctor if I decide to go that way.

As you can see from my med list there isn't much left out there for me to try. Thankfully right now humira is doing a pretty good job.

It's really to bad that there is no money to be made by further testing, so we could have a true case to be made to the governments.
 
Pain relief is the only thing that cannabis and NSAIDs have in common. The only effects it has on the gut are good ones. It helps smooth out the muscles in the gut by relaxing them. If I have a joint before going to bed, it makes the difference between me going 2-3 times a day and me going 5-6.

Pot heads give pot smokers a bad name. A lot of them espouse the virtues through anecdotal evidence without having anything beyond "weed helps you feel good" to back it up, as shown by the posts from 1969 above.

I didn't start smoking until earlier this year, and even then I did a lot of research before I started taking medical advice from stoners. There is very often a large gap between pot heads and patients. Unfortunately most of the people showing up to the pot marches are guys wearing jester hats and Bob Marley t-shirts.

When I'm asked for what medications I'm taking I don't hide it, and I list marijuana among my medications and how much I smoke.

SciFi-Enthusiast usually has good insight as does cdugas8, she doesn't have a lot of posts but she knows a fair amount, we were actually in contact before she joined.

The link to the study done by Bristol and Bath is here
http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(05)00929-7/abstract

and NORML has a section on GI disorders, with links to legitimate medical studies here.
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7009
 
Thats exactly how I would go about it myself. I agree total difference between patients and people who want to get high the question is how do you tell who is who on the net doing research ya know?

Personally, pot does not make me feel good as of the last time I attempted to smoke it. But, it could have been laced with anything.

I think for me the bottom line is this disease really sucks if we can do anything to make us feel better during the bad times, that does not hurt us in the long run, I think we should run with it.

Thanks for giving me more information on it and a desire to go research more on my own. I appreciate it!
 
No problem. Dispensaries usually have good resources. As far as the internet goes, I generally go with actual studies or or people who are patients prior to smoking, generally the language that they use can be a good tip off.

I'm not a fan of being high, I'm getting used to it.

However if you ever happen to be in Toronto, I can assure you my stuff isn't laced.
 
Thanks! I live a bit far away from Toronto.. you sure you don't want to come visit Florida instead?

I have a 13 year old son, I have to wonder if I decided to do this could they take my child away? Thats something I really do not want to mess with.
 
Understandable, I was in Florida earlier this year. February actually, we were driving in that massive blizzard that crippled the mid-Atlantic. It took us 18.5 hours to drive from Myrtle Beach to Pittsburgh.
 
Yuck, I have never driven in snow, I guess I am lucky living in a place it does not snow for that one. I am afraid to drive in the snow!
 
How did this go from marijuana to snow?

Well, I just found out that Marinol is allowed in Texas. I know it's not as good as the natural stuff, since it's missing some of the natural minor chemicals that are also beneficial to crohn's, but it's something. Once I get off the Pred and have another flare up (which will most likely happen after several months) I'm going to ask my GI if we can try it combined with my other meds before we try humira or remicade.
 
we got side tracked. I offered her pot should she be in Canada, I was told to visit Florida. Then I brought up my last trip, etc. etc.

I think my brother may have tried that. I just got a call a couple of days ago from the compassion centre, I starting getting access to MMJ on Wednesday.
 
What is Marinol?

Sorry I hijacked the thread to snow. My bad!

Also wondering if anyone knows it the "herbal incense" has the same properties as MJ for Crohns? Thats legal here for now. I am concerned because it is an altered herb basically.
 
A lot of the stuff being sold a herbal incense, a legal "high, or legal weed, is Salvia. It's not yet illegal in North America, but it's going that route. I think there have been a few states that have already banned it.
It's lacking most of the beneficial effects of pot. Apparently it can help with diarrhoea. It's more of a psychoactive drug, a mild hallucinogenic. The trip lasts for about 10 minutes or so.
 
Ahh this isnt Salvia, thats against the law here. Something called "K2" I see in the gas stations. It looks like pot.. sorta.
 
Ahh this isnt Salvia, thats against the law here. Something called "K2" I see in the gas stations. It looks like pot.. sorta.

Correct. The "spice blends" sold as "herbal incense" (Spice, K2, Zohai, etc., etc.) do not contain salvia divinorum. They contain a mixture of plant material which has been sprayed with synthetic cannabinoids such as JWH-018. These cannabinoids are not unlike Marinol, in that they have THC-like effects, but are not naturally occurring compounds. But while Marinol is an isomer of THC, the molecules of JWH-018 and similar synthetics tend to be completely unlike THC in structure. The plant material contained in the "blends" serves simply as a vehicle for the applied chemical; they have no psychoactive properties of their own. Unlike naturally occurring marijuana, the chemicals applied to "spice" have varying affinity for the body's cannabinoid receptors. JWH-018, for example, is about 4 -5 times as potent an agonist at the CB1 receptors as is THC, while having a more selective effect at the CB2 receptors. The subjective effects of "blends" are very similar to, even indistinguishable from, marijuana, in many cases, while the effects of salvia are not like marijuana at all. Here's a good wike article on "spice": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_cannabis#Synthetic_cannabinoid_ingredients
 
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Interesting. Almost everything here with the phrase herbal attached (outside of legitimate herbal products) is Salvia.
 
Ok so we do not know if it will have the Anti-Tnf, anti-inflammatory or pain killing properties then?

I would love to find something legal that will numb the pain. Granted I would feel....pretty darn silly buying it at the gas stations!
 
Ok so we do not know if it will have the Anti-Tnf, anti-inflammatory or pain killing properties then?

I would love to find something legal that will numb the pain. Granted I would feel....pretty darn silly buying it at the gas stations!

First of all it is important to know that any given sample of K2 etc. may have any one of a number of synthetic cannabinoids, and that while some of these have been tested to a degree in animals (JWH -018 was originally produced to study CB receptors in lab animals) none of them have been tested to any real extent in humans. So, apart from subjective effects, it's pretty much impossible to know what they are or might be doing physiologically. I think the current state of cannabinoid knowledge suggests that the primary anti inflammatory/anti TNF effects of marijuana result from the non-psychoactive chemical cannabidiol. This compound is absent from the spice blends. But the entire subject of cannabinoid receptors, where they are located in the body, the effects they have, what chemicals interact with them either as agonists or antagonists, even how many kinds of receptors there are, is still very much under study and not fully understood. I personally know at least one Crohn's sufferer who has gotten relief from nausea from spice blends. If you are interested in seeing if MMJ works for you, I would suggest you 1st try the "real thing", if this is possible for you. I don't know what the law is in Florida for medical marijuana (I'm guessing it's not terribly progressive, but I may be wrong) . Failing that avenue, there are the other "usual sources" of marijuana, if you have access to them. And of course, you could always take a trip to the gas station, and see if that proves helpful. But again, while many people have and continue to use these blends, keep in mind that they have undergone NO real testing, in terms of toxicity, long term effects, etc. Buyer/user beware.
 
Thank you for the info David.

I don't think I want to stick untested chemicals into my already messed up system. I have tried the "real thing" a few years ago. I swear it was laced with god knows what because 2 little puffs made me utterly and completely paranoid I can't remember if it helped pain, nausea or anything else.

Florida is not a state with MMJ. I don't know that it would ever be passed here because of trafficking going on through the state.
 
Thank you for the info David.

I don't think I want to stick untested chemicals into my already messed up system. I have tried the "real thing" a few years ago. I swear it was laced with god knows what because 2 little puffs made me utterly and completely paranoid I can't remember if it helped pain, nausea or anything else.

Florida is not a state with MMJ. I don't know that it would ever be passed here because of trafficking going on through the state.

It's not impossible the pot was laced, but probably not. Paranoia & anxiety are quite common with marijuana. You might try it again, in a setting where you feel comfortable and relaxed. Starting with a very small dose, and give it time to "peak" before taking any more. If possible, try an Indica strain, which tend to be less anxiety-provoking ;)
 
Erm, considering where I would have to get it how do I ask for an Indica strain?

I actually used to smoke quite a bit as a teenager (yes I feel quite old saying that) I certainly don't remember feeling the way I did with this stuff. I might just have to move to California I think!
 
blah I just dont know I dont want to go to jail, loose my kid. Thats just wrong that someone has to make choices between meds and THAT.
 
How old did you say your son was?

Because if he's older that 12 chances are he knows a guy who knows a guy.
 
I might just have to move to California I think!

Washington also has a very progressive MMJ law. Apparently, the current states with some provisions are Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington.

So mostly, you need to Whistle on out of Dixie :D

BTW on the question of strains (Sativa vs Indica), the dispensaries generally have a notion of what category each of their offerings fit into.
 
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LOL yeah its the South, but I think FL will be the first one in Dixie! My son is 12 and he better not know a guy! But my cousin who lives here is 20 and I bed she knows a guy!
 
Now I'm kind of afraid of Marinol since they say it can make you really really really really high. Now what's easier to cope with, a Marinol high or a Lortab (vicoden) high? Especially since the lortab makes me nauseous most of the time.

Keep in mind I've been a user of marijuana for years but since I have my nieces living with me I have to find legal alternatives.
 
Now I'm kind of afraid of Marinol since they say it can make you really really really really high. Now what's easier to cope with, a Marinol high or a Lortab (vicoden) high? Especially since the lortab makes me nauseous most of the time.

Keep in mind I've been a user of marijuana for years but since I have my nieces living with me I have to find legal alternatives.

SciFi - Aside from the nausea, I would personally think you would be more functional under the influence of hydrocodone (Lortab) than you would be with a really intense cannabis-like buzz. Do you find MMJ helps you effectively? The spice blends mentioned are at the moment legal in Texas, if I'm not mistaken. Might be worth a try, bearing in mind the "not tested in humans" aspect. Smoking is always a bad idea, but life being what it is, you have to work with what you've got. The nice thing about smoking is you can titrate the dose easily, maximizing relief, while minimizing intrusive "stonedness". A relatively new cannabinoid preparation which is available in Canada & the UK is Sativex. This may be the most advanced cannabinoid product to date, since it contains both THC & cannabidiol, and is administered in an easily adjusted, smokeless mouth spray. Unfortunately, it's not yet available in the US. http://www.gwpharm.com/sativex.aspx
 
I found with lortab if I eat bread or crackers when I take it it really helps the nausea. I have also found that using lortab for a bit makes the "stoned" effect go away. I guess thats why people get addicted if they are looking for "stoned" not pain relief.

Downfall of all opiates is the constipation, its great for a bit but long term really bad for IBD.
I don't know anything about Marinol. If you try spice let us know please. As thats legal here in Florida.
 
SciFi - Aside from the nausea, I would personally think you would be more functional under the influence of hydrocodone (Lortab) than you would be with a really intense cannabis-like buzz. Do you find MMJ helps you effectively? The spice blends mentioned are at the moment legal in Texas, if I'm not mistaken. Might be worth a try, bearing in mind the "not tested in humans" aspect. Smoking is always a bad idea, but life being what it is, you have to work with what you've got. The nice thing about smoking is you can titrate the dose easily, maximizing relief, while minimizing intrusive "stonedness". A relatively new cannabinoid preparation which is available in Canada & the UK is Sativex. This may be the most advanced cannabinoid product to date, since it contains both THC & cannabidiol, and is administered in an easily adjusted, smokeless mouth spray. Unfortunately, it's not yet available in the US. http://www.gwpharm.com/sativex.aspx

I'm not interested in trying to take marinol for pain relief, but for the THC's aniti-inflammatory and immune system stabilizing effects. Since I won't be able to stay on the Pred for much longer (have already been on it for nearly 3 years).

I was just asking since I know how sick Lortab makes me and how the high of normal marijuana makes me. For the most part when I'm high on normal marijuana I'm still able to go to class and pass with flying colors (got A's all last semester) but now because of the nausea caused by the Lortab my grades are declining to C's.

I'm not so sure about the "spice" but I've tried Salvia and while people say it made them high or hallucinate it just made me itch all over.
 
I got my lovely compassion club ID today. I went mid-day for my orientationbought a quarter ounce, a cannabis laden cookie and chocolate bar.The prices were pretty damn awesome, the cheapest was $168 an ounce, and the most expensive was about $300. And the guy that did my orientation has crohn's.
 

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