Taboo subject

Crohn's Disease Forum

Help Support Crohn's Disease Forum:

M

madmicky16

Guest
taboo subject

hi

i have been reading alot about treatment with testosterone enanthate and must admit it sounds like it could really help with crohns disease i was just wondering if any one as tried this? if so did it help? what effects did it have on you? any help on this subject is greatly appreciated as i dont know what else to do as this disease is really getting to me now. i know it would put about 15 to 30lbs of weight on or there abouts which would help with stress and self esteem as i lost 30 plus lbs and justcant put it back on and i dont feel comfortable at this weight.

many thanks michael
 
I don't think that testosterone would do anymore than give someone a larger appetite. It wouldn't do anything for the Crohn's as Crohn's doesn't have much to do with testosterone. Human Growth Hormone would work better and a while back I read a few articles that were promising about HGH but I haven't seen any recent tests on it so I doubt it's affectiveness. What medications are you on. Also, remember that it's not likely to gain weight while flaring, although it's been done , unless on prednisone.
 
im on prednisolone,azathioprine and adcal d3. i know diet is a major factor in testosterone building the weight on you i was thinkin that when i have finished the pred i would be healthy enough to eat properly while taking test to gain the weight and i really do believe that a bit of weight would really help me because it really stresses me out bein so thin and we all know that stress is a major factor with crohns it just feels like im constantly ill these days worrying about my weight but i obviously dont want to take it and risk the chance of gettin worse.
 
I know it's hard but when your ill, your ill. Weight comes second to getting better. Once you can get your disease under control then you can gain weight and start getting your outside of the body to get better. Doing steriods, testosterone, can make you look bigger but it will do more harm then good. Just get healthy and worry about the weight later. Trust me know one really cares if you are under weight, if that's what stresses you out. I don't know how old you are or if you are married but it's not hard getting a date while thin. Best of luck my friend
 
Test has similar effects to HGH, but that's mostly when you're in an intense workout routine and under supervision (unless you're a veteran at the stuff)....but it sounds like you want test to fix your self esteem, and not the Crohns, despite mentioning that stress aggravates Crohns (which is very true). I'd agree with all Jeff said. Stallone used test to get the build he had for the new Rambo movie, but again, I'd say unless your weight is dangerously low (post your height, age, gender and weight and I could tell you) or it's causing your Crohns to worsen or your medical team is concerned about it, I'd say try to relax about it. I'm right there with you, I continue to drop major weight when I can't work out and eat my normal diet, and it takes months and months to get back to square one where I was before. I can't stand the fact that Crohns and bodybuilding are each a respective antithesis to each other, but if I can get to remission, I can take care of the build, one step at a time.
 
BWS1982 said:
Test has similar effects to HGH, but that's mostly when you're in an intense workout routine and under supervision (unless you're a veteran at the stuff)....but it sounds like you want test to fix your self esteem, and not the Crohns, despite mentioning that stress aggravates Crohns (which is very true). I'd agree with all Jeff said. Stallone used test to get the build he had for the new Rambo movie, but again, I'd say unless your weight is dangerously low (post your height, age, gender and weight and I could tell you) or it's causing your Crohns to worsen or your medical team is concerned about it, I'd say try to relax about it. I'm right there with you, I continue to drop major weight when I can't work out and eat my normal diet, and it takes months and months to get back to square one where I was before. I can't stand the fact that Crohns and bodybuilding are each a respective antithesis to each other, but if I can get to remission, I can take care of the build, one step at a time.


i think your both prob right it is to do more with self esteem im not dangerously thin by any means its just that i used to be quite a decent size and pretty muscular and now everytime i look in the mirror its just not me anymore. im about 5"8 male 138lbs.i do still try to workout every other day depending on how well i feel. can i ask what your diet consists of please? i have been reading about jordan rubin and his biblical diet which i think i will try out next but i am curious to your diet as you bodybuild.

many thanks
 
Man your not that thin. I'm 5'8'' and have just gotten to around 135 pounds. Before I started Remicade I couldn't get above 120.

Be wary of Jordin Rubin and his diet due to him saying that it is a cure for Crohn's. Just remember there is no cure for Crohn's, at least not yet.
 
Jeff D. said:
Man your not that thin. I'm 5'8'' and have just gotten to around 135 pounds. Before I started Remicade I couldn't get above 120.

Be wary of Jordin Rubin and his diet due to him saying that it is a cure for Crohn's. Just remember there is no cure for Crohn's, at least not yet.


no your right im not that thin but i was once 170lbs dont know if you have always been so small? so compared to my old weight i feel tiny i know what your sayin about rubin he actually chargers you too which is not right if i could help anyone like us i would do it all day every day free of charge what i have done is looked up some biblical foods and i am gonna try my own recipes with them and see how it goes
 
I know all about those feelings of discouragement...

Yeah I bodybuild, but due to the intensity and diet I use for it, I can't do it while I'm flaring like this. I got up to 215 at my highest (but still wasn't done), and had some trimming to get some fat off, and was in that process...then a few months later (got down to around 185 and kept most of my muscle) in fall of 2006, I was diagnosed, and put in the hospital. That flare lasted 7 months, but I was able to work out starting December 2006 because it calmed down enough, eventually, around Easter 2007 I got into my only remission since diagnosis, and got up to a good 185 and started a cut because I had plummeted to 160 during the flare and some new gains were fat...well, then August 2007 this current flare hit, and I dropped down to a bottom of 145 at the worst over the winter. I haven't been able to do more than a few workouts during this year long flare, mostly because of the severity and the prednisone I was on for most of it. I'm 5'11".

My diet now has to be for Crohn's sake, not bodybuilding (which I loathe this fact), but I do know there's a few items that work to hold onto whatever muscle I've got left, mainly lean proteins, lean red meat, egg whites, chicken/turkey breast, fish, hard cheeses....anything fairly low in sat fat (except the cheese, which I do during low carb times) and high protein salvages muscle. When not lifting, if you don't use it, you lose it. I drop major muscle when not working out and I assume that's why you did. 5'8" and 170 is decent and when you plummeted I'm sure you did feel skinny, because yeah, relative to your goals and your prior weight, it technically is thin. Normally I consumed when healthy, about 3500-4500 cals a day while bulking, and worked out somehow or another 6 days a week. Mostly I ate the above lean protein sources, and lots and lots of oatmeal with peanut butter in it, lean dairy, salads, veggies, lots of fruit, whole eggs, tuna, cereal, whole grain products, and tons of water.

It's odd being a bodybuilder in this world, everyone wants to drop weight, and honestly, yeah most people should, but nobody seems aware that even a few pounds of muscle will help them with that more than they realize. So it's also odd when I tell people I want to be 50 pounds heavier with around 8% bodyfat, instead of the 165 lbs I am now. (I want like The Rock or Vin Diesel) But I just remember to ease my mind, even with Crohns I will get to my goals, and probably before most people in the civilized world get to theirs, it's about perserverence.

You say you can work out now some, if you can find out from your doc if the condition and location of your Crohns would be harmed by Creatine, for the most part I believe it's okay, I did Creatine during my first flare to test it and had no worsening, and for 4.5 months of remission also, so I know it didn't cause me to flare, or make the flare worse, I got into remission while on it and kept it, so it must have been fine. Remember, your body makes creatine on it's own and the average American eats 1 gram of it a day in foods, so supplementing 5 grams/day shouldn't, in theory, be detrimental. For food, that's dependent on your Crohns, how bad it is, and your trigger foods. If dairy is fine with you, fat free dairy is great, or the foods in my second paragraph above. And also, lots and lots of carbs, the healthy kind, brown rice if you can handle it and oatmeal if you can handle it. If not, go for the refined grains. Healthy fats like olive oil and nuts (if you can handle them) also for your fats. I can't be too helpful in the diet area for you other than that as of now, and it's possible you already know this and more, these are just some basics, I just don't know your Crohns and trigger foods.

I can help you more if you want, you'd have to post some info on your Crohns and goals, and what kind of foods you can tolerate.
 
Last edited:
BWS1982 said:
I know all about those feelings of discouragement...

Yeah I bodybuild, but due to the intensity and diet I use for it, I can't do it while I'm flaring like this. I got up to 215 at my highest (but still wasn't done), and had some trimming to get some fat off, and was in that process...then a few months later (got down to around 185 and kept most of my muscle) in fall of 2006, I was diagnosed, and put in the hospital. That flare lasted 7 months, but I was able to work out starting December 2006 because it calmed down enough, eventually, around Easter 2007 I got into my only remission since diagnosis, and got up to a good 185 and started a cut because I had plummeted to 160 during the flare and some new gains were fat...well, then August 2007 this current flare hit, and I dropped down to a bottom of 145 at the worst over the winter. I haven't been able to do more than a few workouts during this year long flare, mostly because of the severity and the prednisone I was on for most of it. I'm 5'11".

My diet now has to be for Crohn's sake, not bodybuilding (which I loathe this fact), but I do know there's a few items that work to hold onto whatever muscle I've got left, mainly lean proteins, lean red meat, egg whites, chicken/turkey breast, fish, hard cheeses....anything fairly low in sat fat (except the cheese, which I do during low carb times) and high protein salvages muscle. When not lifting, if you don't use it, you lose it. I drop major muscle when not working out and I assume that's why you did. 5'8" and 170 is decent and when you plummeted I'm sure you did feel skinny, because yeah, relative to your goals and your prior weight, it technically is thin. Normally I consumed when healthy, about 3500-4500 cals a day while bulking, and worked out somehow or another 6 days a week. Mostly I ate the above lean protein sources, and lots and lots of oatmeal with peanut butter in it, lean dairy, salads, veggies, lots of fruit, whole eggs, tuna, cereal, whole grain products, and tons of water.

It's odd being a bodybuilder in this world, everyone wants to drop weight, and honestly, yeah most people should, but nobody seems aware that even a few pounds of muscle will help them with that more than they realize. So it's also odd when I tell people I want to be 50 pounds heavier with around 8% bodyfat, instead of the 165 lbs I am now. (I want like The Rock or Vin Diesel) But I just remember to ease my mind, even with Crohns I will get to my goals, and probably before most people in the civilized world get to theirs, it's about perserverence.

You say you can work out now some, if you can find out from your doc if the condition and location of your Crohns would be harmed by Creatine, for the most part I believe it's okay, I did Creatine during my first flare to test it and had no worsening, and for 4.5 months of remission also, so I know it didn't cause me to flare, or make the flare worse, I got into remission while on it and kept it, so it must have been fine. Remember, your body makes creatine on it's own and the average American eats 1 gram of it a day in foods, so supplementing 5 grams/day shouldn't, in theory, be detrimental. For food, that's dependent on your Crohns, how bad it is, and your trigger foods. If dairy is fine with you, fat free dairy is great, or the foods in my second paragraph above. And also, lots and lots of carbs, the healthy kind, brown rice if you can handle it and oatmeal if you can handle it. If not, go for the refined grains. Healthy fats like olive oil and nuts (if you can handle them) also for your fats. I can't be too helpful in the diet area for you other than that as of now, and it's possible you already know this and more, these are just some basics, I just don't know your Crohns and trigger foods.

I can help you more if you want, you'd have to post some info on your Crohns and goals, and what kind of foods you can tolerate.


after reading this i actually feel for you as much if not more than me you were way bigger than me and obviously know how imm feeling about weight loss. i have actually just started my loading dose of creatine so hopefully that will help and not flare me up.the foods i know i cant touch at all are tomatoes,onions(this is the major one and you will be surprised when you look what actually has onions in it basically everything thats why im constantly ill)coconut seems to get me REALLY BAD too.i started to use it in shakes and believe me i wish i never did!!!.i have just started on oats in the morning too which as of yet as not hurt me so i might add them a bit more through out the day.peanut butter is a major part of my diet at the moment but now this is weird peanuts on there own seem to irritate me(maybe this is psychological??? as there cant be any difference) eggs,tuna,rice,pasta,milk,fish most, meats(eaten in small doses)fruits,honey,chicken,cheese all seem to be ok with me to an extent. so can you as a more experienced bodybuilder than me give me a eating plan with the foods i have stated (vegetables are also ok) i guess im looking at 4k cals a day and then im gonna add supplements to bump it up to about 6k as i think my metabolism needs this much

cheers michael
 
Sure, can help, as far as a diet plan though, sounds like you have a basic structure down fairly well, a caloric goal in mind, and listed off foods that agree with you and mentioned "to an extent" implying you have learned your boundries....basically you should in theory be able to "fill in the blanks" hitting that goal. I always shoot for that "1 pound a week in gains" goal, else you'll be packing on a little more fat than desired in my view (for my sake) but if you're cool with what's classically called "hard-gaining" and going balls to the wall with calories, you're more than welcome to do that, I knew a few of those, they had plenty of energy. I've done days at around 5000, maybe even more, but not too many, as I always tried to mitigate fat gains, and if I went more than 1000 a day over my maintenence (which hovered around 3000 I believe maybe a bit more for a while) then I began to pack on fat a little faster, and many gains weren't as much a majority of muscle like I'd planned, then I spent more time cutting. Plus I never liked looking too pudgy, even if the muscle was under the chub.... But if your metabolism needs it and you're not adding weight fast enough, or the gains are too slow, just add more calories, protein, or both, depending on where you think the problem lies.

You mention veggies are okay, and I assume with that and some fruits you could add that in not for calories so much but for the nutrients...very important when you're heavily working out, the free radical damage prevelent from frequent weight lifting (the muscles are damaged afterall) is greatly stiffled by antioxidants, and the vitamins/nutrients are always helpful in healing better/faster.

Those all sound like good foods to use, and sounds like you did this once, so a second time shouldn't be so hard physically, it's mentally that'll be tough, knowing you have to redo it all again. That's the hurdle. Tobey Maguire put on a good amount for Spiderman 1, then lost a bunch for Seabiscuit (for the role), and then had to regain it all again for Spidey 2....he said it was hell, just think he's was doing it for his career, out of choice basically...damn....

The peanuts vs. peanut butter for you, my guess is: the nuts have more fiber and require more digestive manhandling for your intestines to break them down, and they're rough. Peanut butter is usually consumed with other things, so it generally just kinda blends in with the grains or whatever accompany it. Plain peanut butter is a suspect for what put me in this current flare (among other foods and stress) a year ago, I had like 8 servings of it right out of the jar while watching a movie like 6 days before the flare started...and my first flare in 2006 was preceded a few days by a large consumption of some of that "Goober" jelly/peanut butter mixture on some hot dog buns (I used to eat tons of PB though like I said in oats and all, because it's great calories, cheap, high in great mono saturated fats, and has some decent protein)...That's my guess for your PB issues vs. Nuts, but I only could also guess perhaps you have a slight peanut allergy, and the peanut butter is diluted in other additives and foods, the nuts are pure peanuts, sooo ??? I don't know, just guessing on it.

Anyways, in conclusion, go for your calorie level, get in 1 gram or more of protein per pound in bodyweight (you used "cheers" so I'm guessing you may not be American), so it's more like 2 grams of protein per kilo at minimum (if my approximate conversion is correct, ABOUT 1 lb equals 1/2 a kilo)...around 3 to 4 times your bodyweight in grams of carbs per pound, so like 1.5 to 2 times, at least, in grams of carbs per kilo....I know you use pounds in your posts, so I'm not sure why I'm converting these, but just in case lol....get in about 4 liters/1 gallon of water a day...and fill in the rest with calories from lots of healthy fats, any extra protein, and any extra carbs....provided you make those requirements, things should work out okay to just fill in any extra cals...for me for example at 200 lbs, it'd calculate:

200 grams of protein (equals 800 calories, 4 cals per gram)
600-800 grams carbs (equals 2400-3200 calories, 4 cals per gram)

that so far is close to 4000, leaving maybe 500-1000 cals to be filled in with fats, they're not so evil, except the trans fat variety, avoid 'em like the plague...get maybe 100 grams of fat and it's 900 calories (9 cals per gram)...see how that comes to............

4900 cals a day at 200 lbs.... TA-DAH! (yeah this is for a 200 pounder, but gives you an example, you could follow it though, it's a good foundation of about 5000 calories a day)

for your supplements, do your protein drinks post-workout where they're best, and some slow digesting proteins/foods just before bed, so they last the night....that's a lot at once, I'll take a break for now it's late, let me know about any omissions or additional info
 
im english so your right there but im old school i work in pounds and ounces lol

thats a great bit of help there my friend ill start lookin at doin this when i come of the pred then i know im as fit as i can be to start.at minute im just eatin basic and takin the creatine (which seems fine so far) but once i bump up ill def let you know how i get on. do you have a reccomendation on any supplements you think might be best for me,shakes,vits,fish oil(i have heard a few people mention the benefits of this) anything like that.

thanks for your time i know im a pain :voodoo: lol
 
Sorry to cut in here--I just joined this forum and came across this one and I'm very interested in your help (bws1982)! I just submitted a thread "Creatine? Protein shakes? High-calorie diet? Need to gain weight" and have been filtering through sooo many threads to get info!

I'm actually the wife of a Crohn's patient (hubby is terrible at writing in forums) and we're looking for suggestions with subjects which you seem to know a lot about. If you have a chance, could you comment on my husband's situation with regards to starting weights to gain muscle (should he do higher weight with lower reps? for example), usage of creatine (what kind--specifically, what brand?) and more way to increase calories in his diet. He's 6'3" and 145lbs. Other details are in the thread I submitted earlier today.

Thanks so much!
 
Last edited:
Back
Top