What if...

[goldberry]

warning: crazy rantings of a mom of a boy with Crohn's. and discussion of body fluids.

I just had a thought and I googled it and I don't see any research about this, but... my son has Crohn's and I think about, why, and what causes it. If this seems too weird please just skip it!

what if, when a baby is in utero, you know how babies swallow the amniotic fluid? (I mean they do. They swallow it, and make urine, and all that stuff while they are in there. But they don't have BMs in there, or if they do it's a very bad situation.) well anyway, what if something happens with the mother's amniotic fluid, or something enters the amniotic fluid that shouldn't, and when the baby swallows it and absorbs it in its little brand new GI tract, it seeds some kind of antigen or other substance, which lays dormant for a time and then at some later time the baby's (or grown up baby's) immune system notices and takes offense and starts attacking it?

We have several children, but my pregnancy with this particular child who has Crohn's was different. I felt like his hormones and things were affecting me. Also he was my first where I had gestational diabetes. Overall it was a tough pregnancy. What if my body secreted something into the amniotic fluid that then got into his GI tract and started this sequence of events?

disclaimer: I am an RN and I have a degree in biology but I am not a researcher or any kind of expert. just a mom who thinks about things.

 

[ronroush7]

I am no where near an expert but why doesn't the amniotic fluid affect everyone the same?

 

[goldberry]

well, ok bear with me here because this is not going to be very eloquent, but, babies are kind of like "parasites" in the mother's body (I don't mean that in a bad way, lol) And our bodies are normally calibrated in such a way as to not attack our babies as "foreign" even though in some ways they are. so what i was thinking was, what if sometimes that system goes awry a little bit. not enough to be life threatening to the baby in utero. just enough to seed a problem in the gut that may or may not get switched on later in life.

 

[Beach]

I wouldn't know enough on this to say one way or another. Interesting idea. It's likely worth looking further into in my opinion.

I had mentioned in another post on the sight about a theory of cancer, and cancer cells being the same as placenta cells. The researcher that noted this was named John Beard. Dr. Beard made some comments about pregnancy, which might be helpful or not concerning immunity. I don't know enough one way or another. It isn't diabetes but he commented on what he believed to be the cause of eclampsia.

Dr Beard had this to say - "Beard was perhaps the first to publish that cells that make a placenta are indistinguishable in appearance and action from cancer cells. He called these cells "trophoblasts". He noted that when a pregnancy begins, these trophoblasts invade the wall of the uterus, create a new blood supply and a tumor (placenta). He also noted that on day fifty six of the pregnancy, the trophoblasts stopped their malignant behavior and simply existed to support the growing fetus!

Beard noted that the trophoblasts were originally outside the embryonic sac. After day 56, some trophoblasts entered the embryonic sac and scattered throughout the embryo. he noted that this was the very day that the embryonic pancreas began to secrete its hormones. he believed that it was trypsin that turned off the malignant behavior of the trophoblasts. He later recognized that amylase was also important.....

Beard also noted that the syndrome that can occur during pregnancy called eclampsia is due to a lack of amylase. Eclampsia is the onset of seizures (convulsions) in a woman with high blood pressure and either large amounts of protein in the urine or other organ dysfunction. He also noticed that giving large doses of trypsin without accompanying amylase can cause a syndrome similar to eclampsia.

The cells that form the placenta were called trophoblasts by Beard. It has not been shown that these cells are embryonic stem cells."

Quote from Dr. Tennant's book:

https://www.amazon.ca/Healing-Volta...&qid=1470070397&sr=1-3&keywords=jerry+tennant

 

[my little penguin]

Normal pregnancy both kiddos
There have been numerous discussions on whether C section vs vaginal birth increases crohns
Breastfeeding vs formula
Abx before a certain age
Too many types of "crohns" out there and probably many different causes
But so far nothing to do with infancy or pregnancy has be shown to be a contributor to developing the disease

The majority agree it's the perfect storm
Genes
Enviromental exposure / infection ( depending on which camp you sit in ) and dietary intake
The younger the age at dx the more genetics play a factor

 

[lenny]

With my two Crohn's kids, normal pregnancies, but I had a c-section with the youngest.

 

[goldberry]

I wouldn't know enough on this to say one way or another. Interesting idea. It's likely worth looking further into in my opinion.

I had mentioned in another post on the sight about a theory of cancer, and cancer cells being the same as placenta cells. The researcher that noted this was named John Beard. Dr. Beard made some comments about pregnancy, which might be helpful or not concerning immunity. I don't know enough one way or another. It isn't diabetes but he commented on what he believed to be the cause of eclampsia.

Dr Beard had this to say - "Beard was perhaps the first to publish that cells that make a placenta are indistinguishable in appearance and action from cancer cells. He called these cells "trophoblasts". He noted that when a pregnancy begins, these trophoblasts invade the wall of the uterus, create a new blood supply and a tumor (placenta). He also noted that on day fifty six of the pregnancy, the trophoblasts stopped their malignant behavior and simply existed to support the growing fetus!

Beard noted that the trophoblasts were originally outside the embryonic sac. After day 56, some trophoblasts entered the embryonic sac and scattered throughout the embryo. he noted that this was the very day that the embryonic pancreas began to secrete its hormones. he believed that it was trypsin that turned off the malignant behavior of the trophoblasts. He later recognized that amylase was also important.....

Beard also noted that the syndrome that can occur during pregnancy called eclampsia is due to a lack of amylase. Eclampsia is the onset of seizures (convulsions) in a woman with high blood pressure and either large amounts of protein in the urine or other organ dysfunction. He also noticed that giving large doses of trypsin without accompanying amylase can cause a syndrome similar to eclampsia.

The cells that form the placenta were called trophoblasts by Beard. It has not been shown that these cells are embryonic stem cells."

Quote from Dr. Tennant's book:

https://www.amazon.ca/Healing-Volta...&qid=1470070397&sr=1-3&keywords=jerry+tennant

Wow, that's interesting!!! I will have to read up on this stuff. Thank you for sharing!

 

[goldberry]

Normal pregnancy both kiddos
There have been numerous discussions on whether C section vs vaginal birth increases crohns
Breastfeeding vs formula
Abx before a certain age
Too many types of "crohns" out there and probably many different causes
But so far nothing to do with infancy or pregnancy has be shown to be a contributor to developing the disease

The majority agree it's the perfect storm
Genes
Enviromental exposure / infection ( depending on which camp you sit in ) and dietary intake
The younger the age at dx the more genetics play a factor

Thank you, my little penguin. Well, I just wondered if maybe under "environmental exposure" there might be things that happen in utero. Crohn's does seem to be the result of multiple factors, of course genes, and then the other stuff that happens. And yes, different types of Crohn's. My kids were all vaginal births. But this son of mine with Crohn's had trouble from early on. First, with getting in a good groove nursing. Then he had really bad allergies starting in infancy. He was healthy overall though, until age ten. He got a *really* bad strep infection, took antibiotics, got over it. About 2 months later the gut symptoms started.

sigh

 

[my little penguin]

Unfortunately the genes that are responsible for arthritis /allergies /asthma/crohns
All overlap
Which is why atopic kids have a very high rate of autoimmune disorders including crohns and arthritis

They also tend to have over active immune systems
Meaning they don't even get a cold till much later compared to other children
My Ibd kiddo never had an abx until age 4.5