XMRV Virus and its possible involvement with Crohn's

[D Bergy]

I have not been posting much lately for several reasons. One reason is I have been investigating, and experimenting with a possible root cause of Crohn's Disease. Not only a possible Root cause of Crohn's, but several autoimmune diseases.

This is all very tentative, and I am not saying that this is proven to be the cause of any of these various auto immune diseases, but if you dig into it, as I have, you should be able to see why I think this has the potential to be a huge break through.

The XMRV virus has recently been implicated in some autoimmune diseases such as ME and CFS. Here is one link that covers some of the information available on this virus.

http://www.wpinstitute.org/xmrv/xmrv_qa.html

Since I am largely a self treater, and experiment with alternative treatments. I basically took this information and applied it to Crohn's Disease to see if anything would come of it. I figured it would likely come to nothing, as most of my experiments do fail, with a few remarkable exceptions.

I used the frequency method of killing pathogens and applied it to the XMRV virus. I have found in the past that while this method works to some degree on bacteria, it works exceptionally well on viruses. I was fortunate to have a calculated frequency based on the DNA or RNA of this pathogen. I have found these to be accurate in the past in treating Lyme Disease.

I used the calculated frequencies with my frequency generator and initially my reaction is as I have recorded it after the experiment. I record these experiments on the Rife Forum, where people who use this treatment method discuss the use of this type of treatment. I have kept my comments in the exact context as I did the experiments.

I have been intrigued by this virus since they have found it in people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia.

http://chronicfatigue.about.com/b/20...very-means.htm

It also is associated with Prostate Cancer.

All of these are tentative findings, and it could just be an opportunistic co-infection.

There also speculation that it could be associated with Autism and possibly triggered by vaccinations.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-..._b_316986.html

Here at the Rife Forum we are not bound by the 10 or 20 year waiting period to test these findings, so I am going to shoot at these retroviruses, since I have an autoimmune disease, and see if anything comes of it.

I was surprised to find it in Char's bargain basement of frequencies.

If anyone knows more about this virus, I would be happy to hear anything you could share.

Dan

This is my first comment after treating for the virus.

I ran these frequencies twice now. Once in the lower Hz range, and once converted up to the lower Mhz range.

The first run produced no discernible reaction or sensations.

The second run with the higher frequencies made my Terminal Ilium area sore through the first four frequencies. Most of the frequencies made me itch in various places. The Ilium area is where my Crohn's has been active in the past. It could just be a sensitive area that would respond to any high frequency. No way to know for sure. I need some repeatability.

It could be just an irritant at the higher frequencies. I cannot determine if it accomplished anything, but I am going to keep running them for a few days to see if I can glean anything from it.

My second post was the following. As you can see, I pretty much thought I was done with this. I had pretty much discounted any possible effect. this is how many experiments end up. Most fail and i was pretty much convinced this one had also.

did not get much response to the XMRV treatment tonight. I had a sore gut and slight dull pain in my Ilium that did not last long. No itching like last time.
My cat laid right in front of the EMX. It did some weird ear twitching if that means anything.

So I know nothing more than before. If I spontaneously grow an effective immune response, that will be the only way I know. Not sure how I am going to measure that. I guess if I have absolutely no sign of Crohn's when I get my next (Gulp) colonoscopy, I might have a little reason to believe it helped.

Even that would not prove anything. I will have to leave this experiment to someone with an active disease.

Dan

I thought i was done with this experiment and expected to leave it as another failure. However, I did have some unexpected results, and here is my next post on the matter.

I guess I am not completely done with this experiment after all.

I have noticed that since I ran these frequencies I have had some subtle changes that I cannot really explain.

The first thing that caught my attention is that my intestinal process is faster all of a sudden. Basically, my guts are processing food at a quicker rate than before. I have to go to the bathroom at odd times because everything I ate is speeding through faster. I also have an increased appetite, and my stool is more solid than it has been previously. I can also feel that my guts feel different than before. I can't really explain this, but they feel different. Not better of worse, just different.

It could be some strange coincidence, but I have done nothing else.

I don't have a rational explanation, because I really do not see how killing this virus could change my Crohn's. It was my thoughts that the virus has already done its damage, and that part would be irreversibly changed due to genetic changes. Apparently my understanding may be flawed, or some other unknown factor is causing these subtle changes.

I do not even know that I had this virus to begin with.

While I think the odds that this has cured my condition are less than even, I am thinking about discontinuing my LDN to see if symptoms arise again.
I do not know how else I can test this out.

I think anyone with an autoimmune disease should take a look at this as one possibility to be explored. There may be more to it than I initially thought. I will probably not be able to conclude anything one way or another, but you know what I know.

Dan

This is not an astounding burn down the barn response, but any response to a treatment of this nature is interesting.

I am offering it up for what it is, an interesting result of an experiment that may or may not have huge implications.

The virus has the potential to cause Crohn's directly. It is far from proven that it causes any disease. I think developments concerning this virus bears watching in the future.

Take it for what it is. I am not sure myself.

Dan

 

[D Bergy]

It is a very long story, but I came to using this method of treatment when my wife became ill with Lyme Disease. She was bit by a Deer Tick and started having symptoms of Lyme, which were not confirmed by the Western Blot test. Lyme tests are not nearly 100% accurate, and have to be diagnosed by symptoms. This was four years ago and the doctors around here were not up to speed on the disease. She would be treated much differently today.

She was rapidly declining and I am not one to watch a member of my family slowly decline into a cripple. I hadto find a way to treat the disease myself, or let her arthritis pain and brain symptoms run their course. The first option was the route I chose.

Frequency treatments to destroy or disable pathogens was developed in the 30's by Royal Rife. He successfully treated Cancer patients, and doctors that used his method at the time treated various pathogen related diseases. Some times they worked well, and some times they failed. I will not get into the history as it is long and drown out, but in the end his method was discredited and this method of treatment today is considered quackery.

Several people have used something similar to his method to successfully treat Lyme disease, and that is how I came to use it. I will say that from using it my wife is fully functional today, but is not cured of Lyme. It does work in some circumstances, but it is not perfect by any means.

Since researchers today do not use methods like this, they are correct that they have no way of destroying the virus. I cannot say that I had the virus or destroyed it, but the results are what happened when I treated for it. I do know that Flu and Cold viruses are also hard to destroy by conventional methods, but I have experimented with these before and all I can say is they appear to be easily destroyed or disabled by this method. bacteria are more hit and miss. They are much harder to get rid of, unless they are a spirochete form.

The frequency method of treatment uses resonance to shake apart or damage a pathogen. The common analogy is a frequency breaking a crystal wine glass. This is not exactly correct, but for the sake of simplicity we use a specific frequency that hopefully resonates with the virus or bacteria to attempt to damage it in some way.

One researcher in this method has developed a patented mathematical model that is calculated from the RNA or DNA of the pathogen. This calculated frequency is designed to damage the DNA or RNA of the pathogen. My testing on Lyme has proven to me that it works to some degree.

So basically you have what is commonly, but not entirely accurately, called a Rife machine. This is a common frequency generator that produces specific frequencies that you select. You slect whatever frequency you want and this frequency runs through a Plasma tube and is broadcast a short distance into the body. If the frequency is accurate and the pathogen is disabled or destroyed, you will get some kind of result that is positive. If it doesnot work, as is quiteoften the case, nothing happens. if the frequency does not "resonate" with a pathogen it is unharmed and you get zero results. On occasion you get lucky and the result is very pronounced.

It is not an approved treatment for anything. It is experimental and is considered a quack treatment. All I can say about it is it has brought my wife back from terrible arthritis pain and mental problems to a normal functioning human being. I use it because it works remarkably well on occasion.

Dan

 

[imisspopcorn]

I have always suspected that CMV has some role.....I had acute CMV in my immune titers when they were initially trying to rule out coccidioidomycosis.

 

[D Bergy]

I am spit balling now, but there very well could be more than one virus involved with different diseases.

If I had a higher than normal amount of any pathogen, I would be suspicious of it. The problem is that if any one pathogen reduces or screws with immune function, then you have the likelihood of several co-infections not directly related to causing the disease. I am quite sure this is the case with Crohn's also.

Like the Flu, which is rarely deadly in itself, it is the opportunistic Staph infection that usually kills people. The Flu made it possible for the normally dormant Staph to increase.

If a person can identify the pathogen, if there is one, that causes the faulty immune response, that would be key to everything. The XMRV virus has properties that make it highly suspect as a pathogen with that potential. If it turns out it is, it would be matter of removing the virus from the body and the immune system could take care of the rest of the resulting co-infections. The disease would disappear on its own.

In the case the XMRV virus and possibly others, it may be the tendency of these viruses to attach to human cells that cause the immune system to seemingly attack the body. The immune system may be simply trying to kill the pathogen and damaging the cells in the process. This makes more sense to me than the body attacking perfectly normal cells.

I treated myself for XMRV again last night. My reaction was less than the last two times, but I did have slightly sore guts when finished. Barely any reaction to it.
It is interesting that other than the initial itching I felt, the only other sensations I feel are in my intestinal tract.

I hope the real researchers keep investigating this virus.

Dan

 

[pb4]

Sometimes it's not always an issue of what we "have" but what we don't have as well...

Bacterium 'to blame for Crohn's'

Crohn's can affect the intestine
Researchers believe the lack of a specific bacterium in the gut may be a cause of Crohn's disease.

A shortage of naturally-occurring bacteria is thought to trigger the inflammatory gastrointestinal disorder by over-stimulating the immune system.

Now a French team has highlighted the bug, Faecalibacterium prausnitzii, which they show secretes biochemicals that reduce inflammation.

The study appears in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.


The researchers, from the Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique, had already shown that patients with Crohn's disease have a marked deficiency in bacteria from the Clostridium leptum group.

Their latest work shows that F. prausnitzii - a major component of this group - accounts for a large part of the deficit.

There is so much that needs to be unravled...and just over a hundred yrs ago when crohn's was named, I honestly don't think the treatment back then was a whole lot better or safer than it is now, this is definitely one disease that they certainly have learned very little about when you consider just how long it's been around (which by the way is longer than 100 yrs)...pathetic in my opinion, a cure in a hundred yrs from now?? There's likely a better chance that this planet will no longer have humans living on the earth a hundred yrs from now, then them being any more advanced when it comes to IBD.

 

[fenway1971]

I always know a thread with Dan and pb4 posts will be worth reading. Interesting stuff. If it's viral, does that make it contagious?

 

[anna.h]

Very interesting thread!

A quick question: Dan you wrote It was my thoughts that the virus has already done its damage, and that part would be irreversibly changed due to genetic changes.

Do I understand you correctly: Crohn's (or the virus or whatever causes Crohn's) alters the DNA, and that's why it can't be cured? This i didn't know. Does this mean that you can see if a person has Crohn's by studying their genes?

 

[pb4]

I always know a thread with Dan and pb4 posts will be worth reading. Interesting stuff. If it's viral, does that make it contagious?

Thank you, I take that as quite a compliment

I think that is where researchers are struggling some too, cuz you're correct, if it was viral it would natrually be contagious (at least that's what I've always understood), now there have been a few cases that state 2 people in a long-time relationship where one of them had an IBD (either CD or UC) that their spouse also ended up getting an IBD as well...I'm not sure what I think of that, basically they're saying "long-time relationship" I've never heard of a virus that can only spread from long-time contact (like yrs), so I'm thinking it's more likely coinicidence that the spouse/partner also devloped an IBD, I think the spouse was likely predisposed to getting it and it was finally triggered (for whatever reason) I don't think it would necessarily even have been triggered due to their spouse having an IBD.

Confusing disease to say the least.

 

[D Bergy]

It is contagious, but only by body fluids, it is not air born. The most likely place you would get it is from Wood ticks. All Mice have the virus and Mice are common blood meals for ticks. Mice carry the virus but do not get infected with it.

I am not an expert on viruses, but I do know that viruses attach to your own DNA and insert their own. So every virus changes who you are to a small degree. I do not think this process would be likely to affect someone that much, but I am still learning about this virus, and viruses in general.

When I made the statement about the changes the virus would make would be impossible to undo, I was thinking in respect of the DNA change. I think any change in DNA is so minimal that it would not be noticed. Since then I have given it more thought, and there is a much simpler explanation as to how killing this virus could improve or eliminate Crohn's.

This is all hypothetical, as you all know I have no solid evidence that it is even involved with Crohn's, much less that it is the cause of the disease. I am only investigating it because it is one possibility that would fit well.

The explanation is that this virus attaches to your own cells. We have all heard the theory of the haywire immune system that attacks the body. I have never bought that explanation, but it would make sense that the immune system attacks the virus and damages the body in the process. Eliminating the virus, would make the immune system quit doing this, and quit causing damage. Much like the immune suppressing drugs do, only you have not compromised your immune system. You are now normal once the virus is gone.

If this is why my digestive system speed seemed to change somewhat, that would be the simplest explanation. There was no more pathogen for my immune system to attack. It may be wrong, but it is all I can come up with.

The big ramification is that it would mean that Crohn's and probably other autoimmune diseases, are not necessarily genetic. It could be that families have simply passed on a virus to some family members. Husband and wife both end up with Crohn's? That is not genetic. It could be coincidence, but now I wonder how often that happens. Also, the presence of the virus likely would cause a random autoimmune disease. The expression of the disease would depend on the persons individual makeup and exposure to other pathogens.


I have also run these treatments on my wife, as she already has a tick born disease, but she had no initial reaction to them at all. But now, she has either Shingles or there is something else going on. Her skin itches like crazy and the doctor thought it was mild Shingles, but was not sure. It could be a coincidence also, but someone her age does not normally erupt with Shingles. She has just got over the Flu, so that may have more to do with it than anything. I do not know if there is a connection to the treatment or not. I also treat her for Lyme, and have for a few years. This is not a Lyme symptom.

I also treated my son, who has Hidradenitis Supurrativa. He had similar initial reactions that I did to the frequencies. I will have to wait and see if his condition improves. He has a hard time working at his desk because of the pain from the symptoms of his disease. He is really getting sick of the disease, and it is another one I am trying to resolve.

This is all speculation, but a virus like this would make so much sense, for many reasons. Unfortunately, just because it fits well, does not make it a fact.

I had forgot about that study pb4. I looked for something that had the F. prausnitzii bacteria in it. I never had any luck. I was going to consume a bunch of that stuff and see if it would help.

Maybe there is something now, that is available. It was about a year ago I last looked.

I am glad I am not the only one that finds these type things intriguing.

Dan

 

[D Bergy]

That would be nice, but statistically unlikely. Even if I did, I probably would not really believe it, and if I wouldn't believe it, I don't think anyone else would either.

It is just a problem like any other, that can be figured out. Whether we have the tools and ability to do that is unknown. I just hope it does not turn out to be an unresolvable condition. I do not believe it is at this time, but who knows for sure?

Dan

 

[fenway1971]

I am glad I am not the only one that finds these type things intriguing.

This is why I really enjoy your, pb4 and Mazen's posts. You guys always seem to dig up gems.

 

[pb4]

Thanks fenway, well you know, diamonds are a girls best friend after all LOL!

 

[fenway1971]

Seriously, we should consider a section dedicated especially to threads on latest research - they seem to be posted in different sections and it'd be great to have them all in one spot. Easier for us to sift through them.

 

[icfdeb]

XMRV and other pathogens

Hello to all. My name is Deb and I found this forum yesterday. First let me say that it really is comforting that I'm not the only one who has some of these types of theories. I spent 2.5 hours yesterday explaining to my new GP what I have learned from my own body about my health issues....symptoms and possible causes. She cut me off at 2.5 hours because my appointment was only scheduled for 30 minutes. First of all, how can ANY medical professional begin to help a new patient in 15-30n minutes with these complicated issues. But I won't say more about that.

My background is complex so I'll save that for another time but will say I have had health issues most of my life. I'd get "something", I'd get better and a few years later, I would get something else. A lot of indications that an autoimmune problem was there. My father had an idiopathic autoimmune problem as well.

As for XMRV, I found out about while searching for answers to my "mysteries". My husband had prostate infections before I met him. Within 18 months after moving to my state (WV), his infection had turned to cancer. We were living in MD at the time of diagnosis. He had no insurance while in WV and may have had it then. He was given a nuclear live mouse antibody as part of a diagnostic test that should have been given only AFTER initial treatment unless they had thought he was at late stage 3 or 4, which was not likely based on psa and gleason scores. When they gave him the antibody, XMRV had not been discovered. They could have given it to him and he could have given it to me, or we both could have had it already and they reactivated it or gave him even more.

My understanding of XMRV is that scientists think it an opportunistic pathogen and activates latent/dormant viruses (I would add bacterial infections). That explains the activations of the one person's post on wife with shingles. If she had chicken pox, XMRV could have activated it. My belief also is that even if one didn't have chicken pox but had the vaccine they can get shingles too.

I have a theory that serratia marcescens is symbiotic with many other pathogens. If you don't know what SM is, most people can recognize it by it's pinkish orangish reddish color. One question I'd like to ask everyone is how many have this "slimey film" in their bathrooms. You can find very interesting information on it by googling or looking at wikipedia.

A question I'd like to ask is about body temperature and night sweats. I'm not talking about menopausal sweats for women. These sweats are usually where skin touches skin (your own or someone elses) and the temperature of the skin and when taken orally in the mouth is lower than 98.6. Mine has been as low as 95.3 and is almost never 98.6 anymore. My husband had this symptom severely before his cancer surgery and it went away for about a year before returning. I may have had it in small amounts then. This began for me noticably that it was me and not my husband all the time... last fall and has increased exponentially since my gall bladder surgery in July 09. I presented with extensive fluid and 2 gall stones that were not supposed to be responsible for my pain. The surgeon found extensive inflammation and infection in the organs he could visualize. HE then scoped the bowel and diagnosed Crohn's disease with a followup recommendation to go to a major medical clinic for a full diagnostic workup looking for autoimmune problems. Being a cancer survivor from the time before a virus was being blamed for cervical cancer, I am concerned that I have the XMRV and it has reactivated my cervical cancer from the virus that is found to be connected to it. I also had mono so I think it has been reactivated too. I have had fever blisters and other mouth sores for many years as well. I get reactivations of blisters and mouth sores based on foods I eat....MSG, artificial flavor and corn syrup...and even natural flavor. I can tell someone which symptoms come from which food, when they will show and how they will show. This includes differentiating several types of pain. I also have been exposed to VERY large doses of the SM and molds. I am extremely sensitive to chemicals in food and have discovered that one of them (MSG) is made from bacteria that has been genetically modified and is preferred (or they make it that way) to be resistant to Tetracycline.

I also have the lyme spirochete and photos of several people's, including mine, blood that shows a variety of odd things in it.

That's all I have time for today but will be interested to hear your thoughts.

Thanks
Deb

 

[Ezequiel]

Hi,


I was a very fit happy person and in 2002 I was diagnosed with Glandular fever, then Chronic Fatigue.

Only 18 months after these issues, did I start to get problems with my body and digestion.

Could it be possible that the virus did this to me?

 

[imisspopcorn]

Seriously, we should consider a section dedicated especially to threads on latest research - they seem to be posted in different sections and it'd be great to have them all in one spot. Easier for us to sift through them.

I agree...It should have it's own forum...Somehow it doesn't fit in the Treatment forum or General IBD forum...Maybe the administrators could take a look at this???

 

[shazamataz]

I had Glandular Fever (mono) then Chronic Fatige and now Crohns as well. Interesting. God I hope someone can figure all this out so we can all get to feeling better!

 

[D Bergy]

The XMRV virus and its treatment as a possible cause of Crohn's is speculative at this point, and the only conventional treatment would be with antiviral medications that are going to be hard to get.

The only alternative treatment available, that I am aware of, would be the frequency treatment with what is called a "Rife machine" and the DNA based frequencies developed by Char Boehm. This treatment is considered alternative and not generally accepted as a treatment at all by mainstream medicine.

I can certainly vouch for its effectiveness for Lyme disease and H-Pylori, but I can only say that it appeared to affect the XMRV virus by my reaction, my son's reaction and the outbreak of Shingles in my wife. I cannot say for sure it killed the virus, but if I had to bet on it, I would say it did kill it, but that it takes more than one treatment to kill all of it.

Since both the proposed cause of the disease and probably the treatment are not well established or accepted, this should be in a category of "alternative causes and treatment" section. Heck no one but myself has proposed that this virus has anything to do with Crohn's, so it is pure speculation and should be considered on the face of what little evidence that exists. At least then it is identified as speculative and alternative in nature. Some people are not comfortable with the whole topic and that is fine, but it probably should not be mixed in with conventional thoughts and treatments of the disease.

Deb, I found your comments on body temperature interesting, and also a possible indicator of XMRV infection. Of course this is highly speculative also, but we have to start with some hypothesis. Many here have lower than average body temperature, including myself. I have not checked it lately, but I will now. I have always been a full degree lower than normal.

Thank you all for the input. I always get some clues from just a normal discussion on this stuff.

I should add that I treated my wife with frequencies for XMRV and Herpes Zoster for her Shingles, which were driving her nuts. She was no better the next day, but the day after they started to fade away and now are gone altogether.

Dan

 

[D Bergy]

icfdeb,

Can I have permission to copy your post to another Forum, where we are discussing the XMRV virus more actively?

I find many interesting points in your history and I think some others would be interested in your experience.

Thank you.

Dan

 

[CrohnieCarolyn]

My GI told me the other day when I saw him that the the immune system goes nuts - they don't know why - THIS then allows all the things our NORMAL immune system would fight off - like yeast, shingles etc...
Dan do you think you get the placebo effect with some of these alternative treatments - I'm sure you have thought of this...but interesting research and I have also been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and read somewhere that they think it may be a virus like AIDS that invades the DNA in every cell....

 

[D Bergy]

I never rule out a placebo effect, but when you try twenty different things with no results, you are actually surprised when you do get any kind reaction.

From using the XMRV frequency treatment, I had the dull pain in my intestinal tract that gradually was less and less as I treated it more. Keep in mind that I use this type of treatment all of the time, but mostly for my wife's Lyme disease. It is not something that I am not accustomed to using, and I have yet to have it really improve my Crohn's in any way I can measure.

My wife ended up with the Shingles outbreak which I suspect was from the XMRV treatment. She is also used to this type of treatment for her Lyme, and I doubt a placebo effect could result in Shingles. If it were a placebo effect, she would have had it a long time ago.

All I got from the XMRV treatment was an interesting reaction to the treatment itself, and an after effect of increased bowel movements for several weeks, that have now subsided.

I will admit that I have not done this experiment properly. I am primarily concerned with eliminating the Lyme Disease, and since I only have so much time to work with, this is what I focus on. Once her disease is eliminated, I will do more work on my own. I need to do the proper experimentation with XMRV, but it will have to wait for now.

I have spent four years researching this method and a few others, and the principle is sound, and it does work with certain pathogens. Since more has been discovered about how the original frequency treatments were accomplished in the thirties, it should only improve the method.

For anyone who likes to investigate this sort of thing, you should read this pdf document of the recent discoveries concerning Royal Rife's early work with frequency treatments. The top pdf file is the most recent version.

http://www.rife.de/history_of_rife_instruments.html

It gets technical, but this is one treatment method that literally cured Cancer reliably many years ago. It was documented and witnessed by many top physicians at the time. Since then, the exact technique had been lost, but now in the last two years, it has been rediscovered by some talented people.

If nothing else, people should be aware this is out there. You never know when you may have a use for it. Just my opinion.

Dan