Weight lifting and mass building

[needadvice19707]

weight lifting and mass building

Hi,

I've had Crohn's for about 10 years now. The usual ups and downs associated with the disease.

Needless to say, I have trouble absorbing nutrients. I am a 6'0" 29 yo male and about 142 lbs.

I try to go to the gym as routinely as possible under these circumstances. I am wondering if anyone out there has any experience with a diet and routine for trying to put on weight while not in an active flare.

Any advice and direction would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[fenway1971]

Hi needadvice,
BWS is the resident expert so I'll let him respond in more detail.

I bought the P90X dvd's and found that helped. Hard part is diet of course, but I found I can tolerate certain protein powder drinks. That helped me put on a few pounds.

 

[Crohn's 35]

Yoohoo Benson, over here, you are being paged!!!

Need advice, welcome!!! You have come to the right place and BWS will be here shortly to give you all the information you need, he is our body building Mascot lol. Hope he can help!

 

[needadvice19707]

Thank you both fenway1971 and Jettalady for such quick responses

I'm kind of in the dark ages with these forums and only just discovered this one.

I have been working out pretty regularly for about 4 years (with gaps during flare-ups if they get bad) and initially put on some weight and then pretty much stopped growing.

I will admit that my diet is pretty minimal and lacking which is why I am looking for some advice in both departments. I've pretty much stagnated in terms of improvements.

Thanks again!

 

[Peaches]

:welcome: ! I was trying to search around to find threads for you - the easiest thing is to go up to the top and do a search on "protein powder" and that should get you quite a few threads to read. I searched working out, weight gain. weight lifting - but protein powder seemed to hit the most topics about working out and lifting weights. I'm sure Benson will be along shortly to reply as well.

Welcome!!

 

[Jeff D.]

What kind of workouts have you been doing?

What is your diet like now?

 

[needadvice19707]

Thank you all for the replies

Here is what my current routine looks like:

Day 1 (Chest & Back):

Superset 1
-Lat Pulldown
-Incline Bench
- Bent over Rows

Superset 2
-Lat pulldown (different grip)
-Flat Bench
-Row

Superset 3
-Incline fly
-Lat pulldown (3rd variation)

Superset 4
-Incline Press Machine
-Row (2nd variation)

Day 2 (Tri's, Bi's, Shoulders)

Superset 1
-Skull crushers
-Upright rows
-Incline close grip bench

Superset 2
-Tricep pulldown
-Lateral raises
-Tricep extension

Superset 3
-Bicep curls
-T-bar
-Hammer curls

Superset 4
-Curls (machine)
-Shoulder press (dumbell)

Day 3 (Legs):

Superset 1
-Squats
-Lunges
-Deadlifts


Superset 2:
Leg press
Leg extension
Leg Curl

Superset 3:
Calf raises (3 variations)


After the 3 day cycle I take a day off and repeat the 3 days. Then take a day off and repeat, etc.

I have been on this for about a month or so.

My diet is a little bit harder to describe. I go through periods where i have no appetite, and times when I am ravenous.

Diet content varies greatly. I usually have a decent sized breakfast (2 eggs, whole wheat toast, cereal, lactose free milk), a sandwich for lunch, and a pasta based dinner. I try to take a protein shake after working out and have a spoon of creatine before working out. My diet definitely lacks structure.

 

[BWS1982]

Hey and welcome

This is by no means my full response, as I'm quite out of it right now, but a couple things (comments and questions re: your routine):

Have you done this routine before and seen good gains? I ask because everyone can react different when it comes time to recovery/stimuli, but your workout doesn't leave much time for growth. You're lifting 6 times a week, and most people's bodies, when going naturally (no roids) would need 48 to 72 hours between a handful of sets like that. For instance, I notice on your Day 1 you have Chest and Back hit, then the bi's/tri's are hit again on Day 2, then both those see resistance again being hit before the week is up. Essentially, parts of your upper body (most parts) will be seeing microtearing/damage 4 times within a week. Anabolic steroids are about the only thing that can allow such a demand on the fibers to result in a positive way, IMHO. Beyond the spacing, the routine looks more or less solid, but the frequency appears slightly crammed.

Also, your day 1 has a bit more focus on back. I see 4 sets for chest (and one is isolation, the flyes) and 6 sets back...that may or may not be a problem, but it's slightly off balance, depending on if your back is lagging or your chest responds very well to what you're doing...It may or may not be a big deal, but it's something that caught me as a potential downfall.

Another thing to consider is the sequence on your arm day, as you have heavy triceps focus at the beginning I see, and it fades into bi's....This very well may be optimal for you, but it's possible you could switch it up, just to see, if it gives you more energy for the whole workout/all the sets if you interspersed them better, more like you have for your Day 1. Day 1 you have chest and back alternating quite well, and you have shoulders and tri's taking up the entire first 2 sets, possibly bringing on fatigue too quick (your superset 4 of Day 2 has one last shoulder press and you may have more strategy if you mix it up so you spread out the fatigue, so to say)....

Lastly for now, you need a lot more protein, for your weight, I'd shoot for 150 grams a day, just to round off, and probably 3000 calories (based on your age, gender and activity level)...from as many food sources as your IBD will allow, and drink 96-128 oz of water (those things you may know/have heard of, as you've been at this a few years, I'm just putting this out there in case)...

You seem like you know fairly well what you're doing, and diet is key. So with that said, the above "recommendations" are *possible* cracks in the foundation of your routine. Like I said, many people respond differently, your protein synthesis from prior experience lifting may allow your routine to be optimal as is, so mixing it up may be a moot point. I'm just trying to find fault, if you will, with what I see. You are working out 6 days a week, and most likely not eating enough to compensate for caloric expenditure, let alone to facilitate hypertrophy and weight gain. So, diet being key, that is likely where more faults lie, as your protein levels, in my estimation, probably don't breach 50-75 grams a day at best depending on your shake you have and what you have in the pasta dinner. I'd also try spreading out your food, and adding protein in with breakfast more, as you have 20-25 grams of protein in 2 eggs and the milk at best, and to get to more protein, a place to start is maybe getting that to 3 eggs if possible, and something else worth about 5-10 grams (like a piece of Mozz. string cheese, cheap and has no lactose, those work for me and I can't have reg. milk either)

This is just insight of my own from my own experience (similar situation, worked out since 2003, but the disease has made it go bonkers in frequency and weight)...Chances are it's the diet and lack of calories/protein more than the routine...Some of this may be prior knowledge, as you've been at this a bit, and it could be redundant, but I'd wanted to kickstart some advice giving/sharing here with this to begin...sorry if anything's not clear or I missed something. I'll try to come back and help later, and welcome again.

 

[needadvice19707]

Hi,

Thanks for your response.

I have done this routine before. More or less the same with a few change-ups in the various exercises and seen some gains. But they were by no means significant. Ideally (and this does not mean realistically) I would like my weight to hover around 170 lbs. Now that's roughly a 25 lb addition in weight which is probably outlandish, but I'd like to try and get as close to possible to that as I can.

As you pointed out, my diet is probably where I am falling short. 150 grams of protein is nowhere near the intake I am currently having. I will try and add more into my diet.

As far as the workouts, would you suggest inserting a rest day in between each of my workout days instead of doing three in a row? How about if I were to do more of a push-pull sequence? Say Chest-Biceps on Day 1, and then Back-Triceps on Day 2, and then Legs Day 3?

Thanks again for the insight.

 

[BWS1982]

Ah, good, thought you'd know, you've been at it a while. You're welcome.

Yeah, I'd switch that up, put a day of rest in there and you should prevent overreaching (the status you hit before you hit overtraining)...Overreaching is likely with what I'm reading of yours, the natural body just has little ability to recover that quickly from such damage. What you could do is your above Day 1, rest on Day 2, then on Day 3 do Back and Triceps, and make a Day 4 of legs, OR, you could do Chest-biceps on Day 1, Legs on Day 2, and Back-triceps on Day 3, rest on day 4, and then repeat. Depends on how "compact" you want your routine...My second suggestion still maintains 3 days and you will have that one day between your two upper body days. The thing is, I am hesitant to tell you you can do your back only 1 day after doing biceps, and likewise, you're still only giving yourself one day for your chest day to recover. You'd done your tri's working your chest obviously, so 24 hours is probably not enough time to do triceps right after a chest-focused day, if you get what I mean. If you switch your Leg Day and Back-Triceps days around, you avoid that conflict and still repeat the entire 3 days twice in a week...

The calories and protein would be prime suspects in your quest, though, so if you direct focus there too, as you say, you'll probably see a nice change. There are many tools online to estimate your TCB, so you'll know how much you burn in a day when all's said and done, and you can aim for about 500 calories above that to hit a nice pace of 1 pound a week in gains.

If you have or are willing to, there's nothing wrong with some creatine, it's about the only natural and legal supplement known thus far to have significant and lasting and healthy bonuses in muscle building, and it has no interference with the disease from my own experience and the facts are that it's in food and your body already, so it's not "unnatural" or anything. You'd just be supplementing with the equivalent of 5 pounds of beef (1 gram of creatine per 1 pound of beef usually, for reference). It's an option if your disease is in remission or near it at any given time, and you're okay with it. It's not well explored as far as "what does creatine supplementation do to IBD"...nobody's really done much publishing or studying on that on a mass scale. I just go off personal experience, and that is that it hasn't caused me issues, I exited a flareup and got in the best shape of my life while on it, and stay there for 4.5 months, so, I am sure it doesn't affect my own GI issues, so that says something...

 

[maximus]

I just discovered than some exercise creates some GI problems and or flaring. Anything straing, twisting or whatever with the MID section, is bad.

Its too bad, Ive always been thin, and Ive had more muscle as and adult, without it I would look worse. So Its a huge strike against me that I cant lift or exercise as often as Id like and my martial arts practice is more limited. Ive always need to eat lots to keep up my 160 ibs at 6,0.
Now I cant eat right either. More and more foods are against me with time. Im 29 now, I dread the future.

 

[needadvice19707]

That's a great idea. Just swap day 2 and 3. I like to hit every muscle group twice in a 7 day span so that still maintains the frequency without taxing upper body in consecutive days.

I think I will try that out. How often do you switch up your routines to avoid muscles becoming too accustomed and introduce the "shock"?

I will also try to monitor my calorie burn. I have not monitored my diet or expenditure at all so that is probably where I am lacking.

I use creatine for a month at a time and then lay off for a bit. Just a teaspoon of the flavorless gnc stuff into my mouth and swish around with some apple juice right before I head to the gym. It doesn't seem to have a negative effect on my Crohn's.

Thanks again

I didn't realize these forums are so active and I'm glad I posted my questions here.

 

[Brad P]

I did the gym thing back in 2000 for 9 months. I am 6ft and normal weight has been 133lbs for years prior fall 2008. I gained strength from my workouts no doubt. But if I gained 2 lbs, that was it. I did eat quite well at the time but could not gain mass. I figured it was my nature. I ended up quiting because I started having a flareup.

 

[BWS1982]

No problem.

Yeah, I wave all aspects of my routine with almost random pyramiding (start heavy after a warmup, taper down to lighter weight), grips, angle, machines, exercises (T Bar one day, dumbbell rows another), weight, set, reps, etc...enough that with the push pull routine I do, I haven't ever had to switch it up entirely, at least not yet. I haven't done it for years and years nonstop though, because of the disease, every time I get a good few months into it, and past maybe a year or so, I've gotten sick and had to stop. I guess I did enough waving with the current variables that my body saw enough "guessing" and thus far was never needed, so it's been good so far.

Only thing I'd mention, and it might not even make enough difference (visibly or noticeably) is to do the creatine afterwords in PWO format, as it's shown to be more effective after the workout rather than before. Sometimes that could be subjective, and sometimes I wonder about the other way of doing like 3 grams before and 3 after. I've personally always just done 5 or more grams after (1 heaping teaspoon, as they say) with some Gatorade and whey powder, and it's worked great. The theory, supposedly, behind the Creatine after, if I recall, is that when you take creatine, it's not for the current workout of "that" day, it doesn't assimilate that quickly (it takes hours upon hours to get to the muscles) so what you're REALLY doing is replacing spent ATP (what creatine actually gives for fuel to the muscle) after a workout, and preparing for the next...so, in theory, any given day's creatine is actually in preparation for the next workout after, not that days.

The reason after works well with that as well, is the insulin spike that we should have for postworkout (in my case Gatorade, and in yours, apple juice) for kickstarting repair and protein synthesis etc... also happens to be an excellent environment to shunt that newly taken creatine with the carbs (glycogen eventually) to the muscles. That way, the postworkout shake hits the protein repair, carb uptake, and creatine refill all with a nice insulin spike at one time right when optimal...Just some thoughts...

 

[GI Joe]

Hello everyone. I just had a few observations and comments. First, my first suggestion would be to switch up your routine a bit to put the leg day as your day 2 routine. This gives your arms more recovering time. The way your routine is now is your using your arms two days in a row. Granted your isolating different muscle groups but you are also using some of the same muscles even when isolating such as tris when doing chest. Secondly, if you add creatine to your diet be sure to drink more water. If you don't you can experience dehydration and constipation. Some brands of creatine can also be harsh on the guts. Thirdly, I don't see any ab exercises in your workout. You might want to add some ab work to balance out your routine. Fourth, to get big, you have to eat big. I know this is usually a problem for us Crohnies but I'm sure you can find foods you tolerate. I supplement my diet with a couple of protein shakes a day along with some creatine. Lastly, you don't grow in the gym. As you know, you have to work hard to get bigger but many people forget that the stuff that helps you get big are things most of us neglect--our diets and rest. Diet has already been covered so I will stress the importance of getting plenty of sleep. Your body needs 6-8 hours of sleep. If your not getting enough sleep, your body will not recover properly to repair damaged muscle tissue. The muscles will never grow bigger if they are constantly (over) trained without adequate recovery periods which must include plenty of sleep. Hope this helps.

 

[ashchem]

Hi,

I've had Crohn's for about 10 years now. The usual ups and downs associated with the disease.

Needless to say, I have trouble absorbing nutrients. I am a 6'0" 29 yo male and about 142 lbs.

I try to go to the gym as routinely as possible under these circumstances. I am wondering if anyone out there has any experience with a diet and routine for trying to put on weight while not in an active flare.

Any advice and direction would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Hi,
I found this supposedly 15 minutes long chest exercise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQAh7m4xsMo
If the link doesn't work try google "Killer home chest workout". For the diet: did you try whey protein? Jarrow formulas have a good quality powders.