Weight lifting
- Thread starter bradraz
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Help Support Crohn's Disease Forum:
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what dosage of pred are you on, and what did your tapering schedule recently look like (not only how much are you now taking, but what did the dosages look like since you starting weaning off?)
Have you had surgeries recently, any fistulas, fissures, drainages, etc...
Have you had surgeries recently, any fistulas, fissures, drainages, etc...
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i'm kinda in the same boat i'm wanting to get back in shape myself i just need to know what i can and can't do. when i was in highschool i played baseball and was 6'3 200lbs now i'm down to 160lbs. i can't seem to get back to a happy weight. Do you have any suggestions about regiments. I know when we were lifting for baseball it was like mon/wed/fri - bench/military press/ and something else can't remember and tue/thur was trap/squat/dead lift started with 3x3 then next week was like 3x5 then next week 10/8/6 or something like that.... any ideas??? I really don't want to jump in heavy, and i def don't want to crap myself while working out.
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My favorite routine for something solid that works for beginners, and can be modified into advanced (basically all levels are applicable, with very little waving/modulating) is what is usually called a push/pull routine. Basically, it's four days a week and you divide up the movements into directions, vertically and horizontally, and motions, pushing and pulling. You isolate and work the muscles just enough and can add volume as you progress over time, and it allows enough play room to avoid plateaus as well for the most part. Very flexible, and easy to follow once you know the ideologies, and then modify by even adding arm specific sets at the tail ends (as you see below, no curls or triceps work is listed, but I did add my own in at applicable times). It's simpler than it looks below, bear with me.
===================================
Mine looked like this:
Day 1: Upper horizontal push/Upper vertical pull
Day 2: Lower push
Day 3: off
Day 4: Upper Vertical Push/Upper horizontal Pull
Day 5: off/or light cardio (depending on goals and soreness from day 2)
Day 6: Lower pull
Day 7: cardio or off or abs, depending on goals/soreness
=========================================
*Upper horizontal push involves pressing movements of the upper body in a horizontal (parallel to ground), such as chest presses/benching (well, yeah laying down you're pushing up, but orient yourself for ALL of this as if all movements are done standing straight up). So basically, benching, and even dips, if you know how to do them well...
*Upper vertical Pull would be pullups, lat work, etc...so pulldowns/pullups, lat pulls, etc...as well as trap work, like shrugs
*Upper vertical push would be military presses, shoulder presses, lateral raises, shoulder work, etc...ie: going straight up above your head towards the ceiling
*Upper horizontal pull would be rows, lots of them. Low rows, cable rows, horizontal rows, bent over rows, dumbell rows, T-bar rows .
*Lower push would be squats and any leg presses/quad extensions, as well as calf work, calf presses, etc...
*Lower pull would be deadlifting, hamstring work, leg curls, and the likes (Romanian deadlifts, also called Stiff-legged dead lifts, and if your traps or forearms could use extra work, you can throw in that at the end)
=================================
***what I just posted above looks overly complex, but if I break it down, it really isn't:
day 1: benching and pullups
day 2: squating and calves
day 3: off or cardio or abs, depending on goals
day 4: shoulders/military presses and back rows
day 5: off or cardio or abs, depending on goals
day 6: deadlifts and hamstrings (leg curls)
day 7: off or cardio or abs, depending on goals
See? If one is a beginner, you would want to do 1 warm up exercise in each "area" or muscle group I have above, most have 2 per day (for example, 1 bench warmup, 1 pulldown warmup on day 1), and then you would probably want to ease into it with 3 heavy sets of each area after that, shooting for around 5-10 reps (prime range for size/strength coupling), only going to failure (when you can't finish the last rep) on 1 set per area (2 failure sets on day 1, your last 2 sets total, 1 per area)....so a beginners day 1 would have 2 warmup sets, then 6 total sets after that (don't go to failure as a beginner until you know the exercises and your limits).
I was at 5 or 6 heavy sets per area, depending....If you're very new to the movements, don't do anything heavy until you've established the movement and know some of your limits, and perhaps have a spotter there for them, or watch in the mirror etc...
The benefit to this type is that you can see you work your major muscles multiple times very well over the course of a week, hitting your lower and upper body areas at good intervals, and the volume (number of sets) you do can be modified as needed, depending on experience or other constraints. It's just enough to spark great growth/strength gains, and allows for the flexibility to advance and add sets, and prevent overreaching/overtraining....The small picture benefit per workout, each day, is that you alternate the sets each day you have them. For example, day one would have you warm up with bench press, then warm up with pulldowns, then go to your first heavy bench press, then your first heavy pulldown, then your second heavy bench press, etc...like this:
warmup bench,
warmup pulldown,
heavy bench 1,
heavy pull down 1,
heavy bench 2,
heavy pull down 2
heavy bench 3,
heavy pull down 3
This allows what is commonly referred to as supersetting, basically a gymgoers version of multitasking, as one muscle group rests for 4-5 minutes or so, you're hitting another muscle group, so you are taking 2 to 4 minutes between sets the whole workout, but really, your chest (or whatever) got closer to 7 or so minutes to rest...This has many advantages....
Your CNS (Central Nervous System) is getting a good workout, and that's important, because it is worked no matter what you're using and used no matter what you're lifting. It's actually been shown to be preferable to most goals (except perhaps every powerlifting workout) to keep the CNS "on deck" and fired up, because it has many benefits and trains it harder, which will help release more testosterone than usual and have a higher afterburn (metabolic increase from working out for the following day or two after the workout)....your CNS is just as important to train, as it allows your muscle fibers to contract in the first place.
Lifting heavy and intensely is the primary way to condition it to activate more of your fibers and allow for more strength and growth over time, as it adapts the same way the muscles do: by being pushed. Without a worked CNS, you will stagnate not see optimal results over time, and even plateau. No matter how large your fibers become, the CNS is in charge of "pulling the trigger" and you have to condition it for heavier loads over time. This is why sets with reps above about 12 or so (for the most part, except forearms and maybe calves) are fairly useless in terms of strength or size goals, because the CNS isn't worked very hard at all (though your cardiovascular system is, but that is more for other purposes and not what I'd touch on here, as size/strength are what I'm speaking to)....and this is one of several reasons I am of the belief that bodyweight exercises over time simply aren't enough to stimulate great growth, they push your heart more than your CNS once you can do more than about a dozen of them.
Conventional practices can be fused into this too, such as drop sets or pyramid reps (where you reverse the pyramid or regular pyramid) if you know what you're doing....
That's a whole lot and my eyes are blurry, sorry, and I didn't even touch on some stuff like pyramids and diet, or cardio and abs.
If anything is unclear, let me know, I rambled a bit so I could explain things in the most basic of terms so a complete newbie could utilize this post.
===================================
Mine looked like this:
Day 1: Upper horizontal push/Upper vertical pull
Day 2: Lower push
Day 3: off
Day 4: Upper Vertical Push/Upper horizontal Pull
Day 5: off/or light cardio (depending on goals and soreness from day 2)
Day 6: Lower pull
Day 7: cardio or off or abs, depending on goals/soreness
=========================================
*Upper horizontal push involves pressing movements of the upper body in a horizontal (parallel to ground), such as chest presses/benching (well, yeah laying down you're pushing up, but orient yourself for ALL of this as if all movements are done standing straight up). So basically, benching, and even dips, if you know how to do them well...
*Upper vertical Pull would be pullups, lat work, etc...so pulldowns/pullups, lat pulls, etc...as well as trap work, like shrugs
*Upper vertical push would be military presses, shoulder presses, lateral raises, shoulder work, etc...ie: going straight up above your head towards the ceiling
*Upper horizontal pull would be rows, lots of them. Low rows, cable rows, horizontal rows, bent over rows, dumbell rows, T-bar rows .
*Lower push would be squats and any leg presses/quad extensions, as well as calf work, calf presses, etc...
*Lower pull would be deadlifting, hamstring work, leg curls, and the likes (Romanian deadlifts, also called Stiff-legged dead lifts, and if your traps or forearms could use extra work, you can throw in that at the end)
=================================
***what I just posted above looks overly complex, but if I break it down, it really isn't:
day 1: benching and pullups
day 2: squating and calves
day 3: off or cardio or abs, depending on goals
day 4: shoulders/military presses and back rows
day 5: off or cardio or abs, depending on goals
day 6: deadlifts and hamstrings (leg curls)
day 7: off or cardio or abs, depending on goals
See? If one is a beginner, you would want to do 1 warm up exercise in each "area" or muscle group I have above, most have 2 per day (for example, 1 bench warmup, 1 pulldown warmup on day 1), and then you would probably want to ease into it with 3 heavy sets of each area after that, shooting for around 5-10 reps (prime range for size/strength coupling), only going to failure (when you can't finish the last rep) on 1 set per area (2 failure sets on day 1, your last 2 sets total, 1 per area)....so a beginners day 1 would have 2 warmup sets, then 6 total sets after that (don't go to failure as a beginner until you know the exercises and your limits).
I was at 5 or 6 heavy sets per area, depending....If you're very new to the movements, don't do anything heavy until you've established the movement and know some of your limits, and perhaps have a spotter there for them, or watch in the mirror etc...
The benefit to this type is that you can see you work your major muscles multiple times very well over the course of a week, hitting your lower and upper body areas at good intervals, and the volume (number of sets) you do can be modified as needed, depending on experience or other constraints. It's just enough to spark great growth/strength gains, and allows for the flexibility to advance and add sets, and prevent overreaching/overtraining....The small picture benefit per workout, each day, is that you alternate the sets each day you have them. For example, day one would have you warm up with bench press, then warm up with pulldowns, then go to your first heavy bench press, then your first heavy pulldown, then your second heavy bench press, etc...like this:
warmup bench,
warmup pulldown,
heavy bench 1,
heavy pull down 1,
heavy bench 2,
heavy pull down 2
heavy bench 3,
heavy pull down 3
This allows what is commonly referred to as supersetting, basically a gymgoers version of multitasking, as one muscle group rests for 4-5 minutes or so, you're hitting another muscle group, so you are taking 2 to 4 minutes between sets the whole workout, but really, your chest (or whatever) got closer to 7 or so minutes to rest...This has many advantages....
Your CNS (Central Nervous System) is getting a good workout, and that's important, because it is worked no matter what you're using and used no matter what you're lifting. It's actually been shown to be preferable to most goals (except perhaps every powerlifting workout) to keep the CNS "on deck" and fired up, because it has many benefits and trains it harder, which will help release more testosterone than usual and have a higher afterburn (metabolic increase from working out for the following day or two after the workout)....your CNS is just as important to train, as it allows your muscle fibers to contract in the first place.
Lifting heavy and intensely is the primary way to condition it to activate more of your fibers and allow for more strength and growth over time, as it adapts the same way the muscles do: by being pushed. Without a worked CNS, you will stagnate not see optimal results over time, and even plateau. No matter how large your fibers become, the CNS is in charge of "pulling the trigger" and you have to condition it for heavier loads over time. This is why sets with reps above about 12 or so (for the most part, except forearms and maybe calves) are fairly useless in terms of strength or size goals, because the CNS isn't worked very hard at all (though your cardiovascular system is, but that is more for other purposes and not what I'd touch on here, as size/strength are what I'm speaking to)....and this is one of several reasons I am of the belief that bodyweight exercises over time simply aren't enough to stimulate great growth, they push your heart more than your CNS once you can do more than about a dozen of them.
Conventional practices can be fused into this too, such as drop sets or pyramid reps (where you reverse the pyramid or regular pyramid) if you know what you're doing....
That's a whole lot and my eyes are blurry, sorry, and I didn't even touch on some stuff like pyramids and diet, or cardio and abs.
If anything is unclear, let me know, I rambled a bit so I could explain things in the most basic of terms so a complete newbie could utilize this post.
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Well, there really isn't any magic bullet to getting in shape (leaner or more muscular or both), I believe there are optimal lines of thinking. What I posted above is a good guideline for long term usage, which is where you'll find sustainable results. The biggest culprit for "quick fixes" is in the area of fat loss, and there are many myths and scams, but the truth is even if they work temporarily, one has a high likelihood of bouncing back in fat gains, possibly even worse than they were in the beginning. This has garnered the term "yo yo diet" because it's not healthy or good for sustainability.
Crohns is a brand new facet in ones plans too. You have to be careful with what your IBD will tolerate, what your meds will allow, and if your GI tract can cope with the stresses of the activity levels and dietary changes. As a general rule of thumb, we all already kind of know the body doesn't like sudden changes, as it tends to fight them.
Cleaning up ones diet is generally the quickest thing you can do, but calorie levels and macro ratios (protein, fat, carbs ratios in terms of proportion of total intake) have to be eased into. The body and IBD will not agree with sudden increases or decreases in calories or macro levels, so a gradual flux is needed, for example a 500 calorie increase or decrease should take at least 1 week to complete so the body (and IBD) doesn't retaliate. Same with a workout routine, easing into cardio and/or weights is optimal, or one can cause issues.
In one word, "gradual" is how it's best summarized. Sudden changes are risky and may have you back further than square one in the end.
Crohns is a brand new facet in ones plans too. You have to be careful with what your IBD will tolerate, what your meds will allow, and if your GI tract can cope with the stresses of the activity levels and dietary changes. As a general rule of thumb, we all already kind of know the body doesn't like sudden changes, as it tends to fight them.
Cleaning up ones diet is generally the quickest thing you can do, but calorie levels and macro ratios (protein, fat, carbs ratios in terms of proportion of total intake) have to be eased into. The body and IBD will not agree with sudden increases or decreases in calories or macro levels, so a gradual flux is needed, for example a 500 calorie increase or decrease should take at least 1 week to complete so the body (and IBD) doesn't retaliate. Same with a workout routine, easing into cardio and/or weights is optimal, or one can cause issues.
In one word, "gradual" is how it's best summarized. Sudden changes are risky and may have you back further than square one in the end.
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If it's any consolation, getting in shape the second time around (regaining lost ground) is typically easier than getting in shape the first time around. The body, in basic terms, has a "memory" of what used to be, and it's quicker to achieve a previous state of fitness than to pave new uncharted territory....generally speaking....
Crap I didn't see this thread until now. I think Benson has given pretty good advice. Bradraz I wouldn't recommend working out until you finish your pred.
Also, your body has a memory of about six months so if you were skinny six months ago you will have to break that before you can gain all the weight and that will be hard but if you keep exercising then you will be able to gain weight.
Good luck
Also, your body has a memory of about six months so if you were skinny six months ago you will have to break that before you can gain all the weight and that will be hard but if you keep exercising then you will be able to gain weight.
Good luck
There is a risk of low potassium and therefore can give you muscle weakness which would be bad if you are weight lifting. If you are on pred then some resistance training with bands but other than that I would not lift. I have also heard from my GI not to lift weights while on pred or if you insist then do light weight and make sure you can handle it.
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Jeff D- Thank You for the explaination! Much Appreciated! I lifted while on and lifted heavy to boot and never had probs, actually it helped with the eatting since im also a Ecto so i could get down 4-5k cals daily, but was on potassium supp and tryin to down gallon of water a day! But Ill remember that for next time for sure!!!!
Last edited:
Excellent advice above...since we're talking exercise here's a link regarding some myths about working out/exercise...you may have to wait a few moments for the link to download...
http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/bc/story.html?id=1449116
http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/bc/story.html?id=1449116
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Thanks for that link PB4, 10 for 10 in what I always respond with when asked....especially the female "bulking" concern, it's not hormonally feasible for women in general to get "bulky" as they lift heavy weights (unless they are on some form of "chemical assistance")....and weight training will, in fact, cause them to most likely lose more fat than their non-lifting peers, and keep it off as well.
I avoid plateaus simply by waving all my variables, sets, volume, reps, angle, grips, etc... and just keep the foundation (push/pull routine) in tact, and that has never given me a plateau. I also avoid plateaus during cutting via carb cycling/calorie cycling, and it works equally well....
I avoid plateaus simply by waving all my variables, sets, volume, reps, angle, grips, etc... and just keep the foundation (push/pull routine) in tact, and that has never given me a plateau. I also avoid plateaus during cutting via carb cycling/calorie cycling, and it works equally well....
Ya, I've seen some of "those women" you're referring too (when watching the womens fitness challange) SCARY!!! and GROSS at the same time, because of how they are "enhancing" themselves they are literally turning their female face form into a male looking face and what ever on earth are they doing to their poor boobies???????
Nothing more attractive then a beautifully toned/cut body, male or female but when the chicks start enhancing that's where the line is drawn on them keeping their beauty...female beauty.
Nothing more attractive then a beautifully toned/cut body, male or female but when the chicks start enhancing that's where the line is drawn on them keeping their beauty...female beauty.
Those women and the men that don't look real with the amount of muscle they have are the poster children of why people can't overdo protein and steroids. A lot of the time you can tell a steroid user by seeing the increase in chin mass over time. If you look at pictures of Lance Armstrong you will see how his jaw starts to get broader and broader which is a bad sign. Don't overdo protein and don't take steroids to get bigger in general is a good rule to follow.
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I wouldn't classify or correlate protein consumption with steroid usage/misuse, personally. Excess protein is not harmful for a person with no renal issues, it's just excess calories/energy, no different than a bowl of rice you didn't burn off (actually rice would be worse, more likely to spike your insulin and hinder fat loss). Renal/kidney issues, however, can make things different. I always stick with the classic "1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight" and it generally has worked well. IBD sufferers have a new factor to think about though, because protein *can* be a harder component to digest in larger amounts, so that can spin things differently...
Even sedentary individuals could shoot for 100 grams a day, and I'd almost guarantee they'd lose some fat by feeling more full and increasing their metabolism, but the FDA is content with the 50 (or 67 grams, depending on where you look)....protein, generally, has a harder time being "converted to fat" as it doesn't crank up insulin levels or cause crashes, etc...so if someone was to go over on calories for a day, 100 calories of extra protein (25 grams of it, precisely) sure as heck beats 100 extra cals of carbs or saturated fats....Just my own opinion.....
Steroid use can be easy to notice if you know what to look for, the jaw is one, certain proliferation of acne or balding CAN be another (but not a guarantee, since when I have bulked really intensely, I broke out in acne just from the natural testosterone surges, never done steroids....) If you are "ballsy" enough, there are other ways to tell in the locker room.....nudge nudge........
Even sedentary individuals could shoot for 100 grams a day, and I'd almost guarantee they'd lose some fat by feeling more full and increasing their metabolism, but the FDA is content with the 50 (or 67 grams, depending on where you look)....protein, generally, has a harder time being "converted to fat" as it doesn't crank up insulin levels or cause crashes, etc...so if someone was to go over on calories for a day, 100 calories of extra protein (25 grams of it, precisely) sure as heck beats 100 extra cals of carbs or saturated fats....Just my own opinion.....
Steroid use can be easy to notice if you know what to look for, the jaw is one, certain proliferation of acne or balding CAN be another (but not a guarantee, since when I have bulked really intensely, I broke out in acne just from the natural testosterone surges, never done steroids....) If you are "ballsy" enough, there are other ways to tell in the locker room.....nudge nudge........
Have you checked out this article
http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/nutrition/factsheets/protein.html
It just says how much protein to eat per day.
I have also heard of excess protein causing imbalances and possible absorbtion of other nutrients.
http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/nutrition/factsheets/protein.html
It just says how much protein to eat per day.
I have also heard of excess protein causing imbalances and possible absorbtion of other nutrients.
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yeah, it said about 0.9 grams a day/pound bodyweight for where I'd normally fall, which is why I shoot for 1 gram (of which they say is the maximum absorption level, but that's still widely debated).
The link also mentions something I've read (but not seen for a while) about protein assisting in intestinal absorption, here:
I myself haven't heard of the other nutrients or imbalances (have heard about amino absorption prioritizing) you mention, but as I had mentioned before, someone with pre-existing renal issues can't eat protein the same way I do, for example, because the kidneys are in charge of excretion when it come to the nitrogen.
The part where they said "Nevertheless, this increased requirement can be readily met without supplementation when the high energy intakes required by athletes are consumed" also alludes to the concept of "high energy intakes", to which they are referring to massive amounts of carbs/calories (like Olympic swimmers who eat nearly 10,000 cals a day to provide energy to their intense routines and demands and even downwards to just 3K or 4K/day calorie-intake athletes). When someone is only eating 2000-3000 calories and not eating as many carbs, because they are cutting fat or not competing in anything, supplementation is more beneficial. They basically said that you don't need to supplement if you eat a ton of food, which is true...
Anyways, I'd more or less have to agree with his chart of intake, because it shows that most adults, even sedentary, can take in 0.4 grams of protein per pound in bodyweight, to which a person of 200 lbs would be eating 80 grams a day, not the 50 the FDA has set....toxicity is hard to induce with healthy kidneys in my own readings/opinion, but possible just like with anything. It's just a matter of the effects protein has on the goals of anyone - gaining muscle, losing weight, just being healthy - being generally quite beneficial, and the 50 grams a day the FDA spouts is simply insufficient for even sedentary people (see above example = 80 grams), and we all know you're *not* supposed to be sedentary in order to be healthy, so that puts most people/adults who *should* be working out (noted as "recreational activity" in their table) in the "0.5-0.75" range according to the table, to which means about 100-150 grams for a 200 pound adult, exercising like they should.
The link also mentions something I've read (but not seen for a while) about protein assisting in intestinal absorption, here:
I myself haven't heard of the other nutrients or imbalances (have heard about amino absorption prioritizing) you mention, but as I had mentioned before, someone with pre-existing renal issues can't eat protein the same way I do, for example, because the kidneys are in charge of excretion when it come to the nitrogen.
The part where they said "Nevertheless, this increased requirement can be readily met without supplementation when the high energy intakes required by athletes are consumed" also alludes to the concept of "high energy intakes", to which they are referring to massive amounts of carbs/calories (like Olympic swimmers who eat nearly 10,000 cals a day to provide energy to their intense routines and demands and even downwards to just 3K or 4K/day calorie-intake athletes). When someone is only eating 2000-3000 calories and not eating as many carbs, because they are cutting fat or not competing in anything, supplementation is more beneficial. They basically said that you don't need to supplement if you eat a ton of food, which is true...
Anyways, I'd more or less have to agree with his chart of intake, because it shows that most adults, even sedentary, can take in 0.4 grams of protein per pound in bodyweight, to which a person of 200 lbs would be eating 80 grams a day, not the 50 the FDA has set....toxicity is hard to induce with healthy kidneys in my own readings/opinion, but possible just like with anything. It's just a matter of the effects protein has on the goals of anyone - gaining muscle, losing weight, just being healthy - being generally quite beneficial, and the 50 grams a day the FDA spouts is simply insufficient for even sedentary people (see above example = 80 grams), and we all know you're *not* supposed to be sedentary in order to be healthy, so that puts most people/adults who *should* be working out (noted as "recreational activity" in their table) in the "0.5-0.75" range according to the table, to which means about 100-150 grams for a 200 pound adult, exercising like they should.
bradraz said:
I commend you for wanting to get in shape. It’s important to take care of yourself especially with a chronic disease. I encourage you to exercise but don't get carried away with the weights. At 14, your bones, joints and muscles are still developing and can be damaged permanently if you lift in an unsafe manner. I would encourage you to seek out someone competent (coach/PE teacher) that can teach you proper form and techniques so you don't get injured or form bad habits. I have lifted since high school and have seen many beginners slinging weights around and allowing their egos to push them into lifting more weight than they are ready for which often results in injuries.
