Confusion over fibre

[nevilletanner]

i understand about the two different types of fibre ie soluble and non soluble,

so soluble is ok to eat ?
how do you know on food packaging which fibre is listed ?

the healthy option says that 20 units of fibre is required but the average consumption is between 12 - 15 units. therefore would i be right in aiming to keep under 10 units a day or is this still high for us crohnies ?

is it better to eat many low units of fibre or small amounts of higher fibre ?



thx.

 

[CLynn]

Wish I had the answer for you, Neville. We need to study up on this one.

 

[sawdust]

I'm interested to see the discussion on this as well. Certain fibers at certain times and in certain amounts seems to be the answer for me personally.

I have a fair amount of inflammation in my terminal ileum and the sickest I've been in a while was the result of a glass of a certain wheat dextrin-based product and a serving of broccoli. Ouch.

On the other hand, if I'm feeling well, I find I can enjoy different food-based fibers in moderation. I stick to moderation because it's not worth it to push the envelope, in my opinion.

 

[CLynn]

Very true, Saw. I apply the "in moderation" as well, although sometimes it's a bit harder than others to apply it.

 

[Cat-a-Tonic]

Personally I try to avoid a lot of fiber in foods (anything that says "whole grain" or "high fiber" on the packaging does not go in my stomach!). I do take psyllium husks, which is soluble fiber, every day. There's a long thread about psyllium husks if your'e interested. Long story short, I take one teaspoon of psyllium mixed into a glass of water each day. I am in remission and am on Asacol, which firmed up my stools and I rarely have diarrhea anymore these days, but I was still having "frequency" issues (going 4 to 10+ times daily). Psyllium has reduced that number (now going 1-3 times per day, and my hemorrhoids are gone). So if you're leary of eating fibrous foods, as I am, you might want to give psyllium a try. It's done good things for me.

 

[CLynn]

Cat, maybe I should give them another try. I just always shy away, worrying about the stomach upset they can cause, bloating, gas, etc. Does it do that to you?

 

[Cat-a-Tonic]

CLynn, if I take too much psyllium (like the time I tried taking 2 teaspoons instead of one), then I get awful cramping and gas and bloating, yes. As long as I stick to 1 teaspoon daily I'm fine. I believe the packaging on my psyllium says to take 2 tablespoons a day which would not be good! So if you try psyllium again, start small (maybe start with half a teaspoon and work your way up to 1 teaspoon) and you should be okay. Your body will let you know if you take too much psyllium, I learned that one the hard way.

Another thing, don't do Metamucil. It says it's psyllium, but apparently there's additives and stuff in there too which can cause bloat, cramping, etc. Just get straight-up psyllium husks with nothing else added. I get mine from Whole Foods (in the vitamin & supplement section). The organic kind costs a bit more than the regular kind does, but my understanding is they likely use a lot of pesticides on the regular stuff, so go for organic psyllium if you can afford it.

 

[CLynn]

Thanks so much, Cat! You are most helpful! I remember years ago, my GI had me taking one that you never hear of unless you have Crohn's, but it was just like metamucil. Seems like it started with a "p". It made me feel like my Crohn's does on it's worst days, so I didn't take it long.

 

[nevilletanner]

I'm interested to see the discussion on this as well. Certain fibers at certain times and in certain amounts seems to be the answer for me personally.

I have a fair amount of inflammation in my terminal ileum and the sickest I've been in a while was the result of a glass of a certain wheat dextrin-based product and a serving of broccoli. Ouch.

On the other hand, if I'm feeling well, I find I can enjoy different food-based fibers in moderation. I stick to moderation because it's not worth it to push the envelope, in my opinion.

saw .. both contain non soluble fiber (fibre), must admit i love a bit of cauliflower and broccoli - have to get the wife to really overcook it though as it breaks down the fiber, then no problem eating it

 

[CLynn]

Saw, is that "certain wheat destri-based product" a fancy name for beer?

 

[sawdust]

Saw, is that "certain wheat destri-based product" a fancy name for beer?

Benefiber :hallo3:

EDIT: It took me the better part of a year to give away the poor members of the last case of beer I had. I don't miss it much, luckily. I haven't had a beer, let alone alcohol, in years.

 

[nevilletanner]

Personally I try to avoid a lot of fiber in foods (anything that says "whole grain" or "high fiber" on the packaging does not go in my stomach!). I do take psyllium husks, which is soluble fiber, every day. There's a long thread about psyllium husks if your'e interested. Long story short, I take one teaspoon of psyllium mixed into a glass of water each day. I am in remission and am on Asacol, which firmed up my stools and I rarely have diarrhea anymore these days, but I was still having "frequency" issues (going 4 to 10+ times daily). Psyllium has reduced that number (now going 1-3 times per day, and my hemorrhoids are gone). So if you're leary of eating fibrous foods, as I am, you might want to give psyllium a try. It's done good things for me.

not so sure on this one Cat .. take a look here -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyllium_seed_husks especially at the warnings ! about causing obstructions - seriously not good if you have the possibility of strictures IMHO

 

[Cat-a-Tonic]

That link, as well as the psyllium packaging, does specify that you have to mix it with enough water. As long as you mix it with water it should be fine. I drink it in a glass of water (not a huge glass, just a regular size like 8 oz glass) and I haven't had any problems. I don't have any strictures as far as I know and I'm not worried. If you have strictures, then use your best judgment. I would imagine that any fiber or "bulky" type food could potentially cause issues for strictures though so I wouldn't put all the blame on psyllium there.

 

[David]

We have a decent wiki article on fiber that covers soluble and insoluble located here.

I personally feel sufficient amounts of fiber are EXTREMELY important and that it gets a bad rap when it comes to IBD. Obviously if it's a known trigger or exacerbates symptoms it should be avoided. But here's an abstract stating that it is shown to reduce symptoms.

 

[David]

I should have been more careful with my words above, my apologies for that. If you have narrowing of your bowel (where fiber can lead to problems) or fiber leads to cramping or any worsening of symptoms, then toss what I said above out the window. As always, it's a case by case basis. Some do great with fiber and studies showcase its benefit whereas others like the person who contacted me privately in a very diplomatic manner, do not do well with fiber. If my words led to frustration for anyone, my apologies.

If anyone out there can find any studies that showcase negative aspects of dietary fiber, please post them here or send them to me privately so we can provide as much information as possible so everyone can make an educated decision. Thanks!

 

[nevilletanner]

As you say david everyone is different,
the reason i bring this topic up is that there is no hard fast rules and alot of confusion on what is and what isnt high fiber,
infact i dont think there is anyone out there that can really answer my original question or the question you have raised.

all i know is that many with crohns ARE affected by fiber taken in any quantity, but again i ask WHAT IS THE QUANTITY ? was it soluble or not ? was it a high fiber food like brown bread or was it a total of small amounts of fiber over 24 hours.

i really think this should be investigated in some way , for the benefit of everyone.

after all even the professionals cant agree on this .. see .. http://www.everydayhealth.com/crohns-disease/webcasts/crohns-and-fiber-helpful-or-harmful.aspx

the should fiber be included in diet cant be resolved,but maybe the amount and type can be with the help of everyone on here ! :ywow:

 

[nevilletanner]

guess im on my own on this one , any one wanting a good idear of there fiber intake see below.


Food Portion Calories Fiber (grams)
Almonds
slivered 1 tbsp 14 0.6
sliced 1/4 cup 56 2.4
Apple
raw 1 small 55-60 3.0
raw 1 med 70 4.0
raw 1 large 80-100 4.5
baked 1 large 100 5.0
applesauce 2/3 cup 182 3.6
Apricots
raw 1 whole 17 0.8
dried 2 halves 36 1.7
can in syrup 3 halves 86 2.5
Artichokes
cooked l large 30-44 4.5
canned 4 small 24 4.5
Asparagus
small spears 1/2 cup 17 1.7
Avocado
diced 1/4 cup 97 1.7
sliced 2 slices 50 0.9
whole 1/2 avg.size 170 2.8
crisps small pack 32 1 - 3
Baked beans
in sauce 1 tin 180 16.0
with pork 1 tin 200-260 16.0
Baked potato (see Potatoes)
Banana 1 med 8" 96 3.0
Beans
black 1 cup 190 19.4
broad beans 3/4 cup 30 3.0
Grt Northern 1 cup 160 16.0
kidney bean can 94 9.7
kidney bean 1 cup 188 19.4
butter beans 1/2 cup 118 3.7
lima, dried 1/2 cup 150 5.8
pinto, dried
before cooking 1/2 cup 155 18.8
can or cooked 1 cup 155 18.8
white, dried
before cooking 1/2 cup 160 16.0
can or cooked 1/2 cup 80 8.0

Bean sprouts 1/4 cup 7 0.8
Beets 1/2 cup 33 2.5
whole 3 sm. 48 3.7
Blackberries 1/2 cup 27 4.4
canned, 1/2 cup 54 5.0
jam, with seeds 1 tbsp 60 0.7

Bran meal 3 tbsp 28 6.0
1 tbsp 9 2.0
Brazil nuts 2 48 2.5

Bread
brown 2 slices 100 4.0
wheat 2 slices 120 3.6
high-bran 2 slices 120-160 7.0
white 2 slices 160 1.9
whole grain 2 slices 108 5.8
pumpernickel 2 slices 116 4.0
seven-grain 2 slices 111-140 6.5
whole wheat 2 slices 120 6.0
whole + raisin 2 slices 140 6.5
Bread crumbs 1 tbsp 22 2.5

Broccoli
raw 1/2 cup 20 4.0
frozen 4 spears 20 5.0
fresh, cooked 3/4 cup 30 7.0

Brussel sprouts 3/4 cup 36 3.0
Bulgur, cooked 1 cup 160 9.6

Cabbage, white or red
raw 1/2 cup 8 1.5
cooked 2/3 cup 15 3.0
Cantaloupe 1/4 38 1.0
Carrots
raw, slivered 1/4 cup 10 1.7
cooked 1/2 cup 20 3.4
Cauliflower
raw 3 tiny buds 10 1.2
cooked 7/8 cup 16 2.3
Celery raw 1/4 cup 5 2.0
chopped 2 tbsp 3 1.0
cooked 1/2 cup 9 3.0

Cereal
All-Bran 3 tbsp 35 5.0
1/2 cup 90 10.4
Bran Buds 3 tbsp 35 5.0
1/2 cup 90 10.4
Bran Flakes 1cup 90 5.0
with raisins 1 cup 110 6.0
Cornflakes 3/4 cup 70 2.6
Cracklin' Bran 1/2 cup 110 4.0
most cereals 1 cup 200 8.0
oatmeal 3/4 cup 212 7.7
Nabisco Bran 1/2 cup 105 4.0
Puffed wheat 1 cup 43 3.3
Raisin Bran 1 cup 195 5.0
Wheatena 2/3 cup 101 2.2
Wheaties 1 cup 104 2.0

Cherries raw 10 28 1.2
Chestnuts 2 lg 29 1.9
Chickpeas can 1/2 cup 86 6.0
cooked 1 cup 172 12.0

Coconut, dried 1 tbsp 46 3.4
Corn on cob 1 med 64-70 5.0
kernels, can 1/2 cup 64 5.0
succotash 1/2 cup 66 7.0
Cornbread 1 sq 2.5" 93 3.4

Crackers
cream 2 50 0.4
graham 2 53 1.4
Ry-Krisp 3 64 2.3
Triscuits 2 50 2.0
Wheat Thins 6 58 2.2

Cranberries 1/4 cup 12 2.0
sauce 1/2 cup 245 4.0
cranberry relish 1 tbsp 56 0.5

Cucumber 10 thin sl 12 0.7
Dates, pitted 2 (1/2 oz.) 39 1.2
Eggplant 2 thick sl 42 4.0
Endive salad 10 leaves 10 0.6

Figs dried 3 120 10.5
fresh 1 30 2.0
fruit n fiber 1/2 cup 90 3.5

Grapefruit 1/2 (avg. size) 30 0.8
Grapes 20 75 1.0

Green beans 1/2 cup 10 2.1

GREENS collards, beet greens , dandelion, kale,
Swiss chard, turnip greens
1/2 cup 20 4.0

h/dew melon 3" slice 42 1.5
Lasagne (see Macaroni)
Lentils brown 1/3 cup 144 5.5
red 1/2 cup 192 6.4

Lettuce (Boston, leaf, iceberg)
shredded 1 cup 5 0.8

Macaroni 1 cup 200 5.7
Muffins
English, 1 whole 125 3.7
bran, 2 136 4.6
Mushrooms 5 sm 4 1.4
Noodles 1 cup 200 5.7
Okra 1/2 cup 13 1.6
Olives 6 42 1.2
Onion raw 1 tbsp 4 0.2
cooked 1/2 cup 22 1.5
Orange 1 lg 70 2.4
1 sm 35 1.2
Parsley 2 tbsp 4 0.6
Parsnip 1 lg 76 2.8
1 sm 38 1.4
Peach 1 med 38 2.3
canned 2 halves 70 1.4
Peanut butter 1 tbsp 86 1.1
Pnuts dry roast 1 tbsp 52 1.1
Pear 1 med 88 4.0
peas 1/2 cup 60 9.1
black-eyed 1/2 cup 74 8.0
split peas dry 1/2 cup 63 6.7
cooked 1 cup 126 13.4

Peppers
green raw 2 tbsp 4 0.3
green cooked 1/2 cup 13 1.2
red sweet 2 tbsp 9 1.0
red chili 1 tbsp 7 1.2
Pineapple 1/2 cup 41 0.8
Plums 2 or 3 sm 38-45 2.0
Popcorn 1 cup 20 1.0

Potatoes
baked 1 sm 120 4.2
1 med (7 oz) 140 5.0
white/russet 1 sm 60 2.2
boiled 1 med (5 oz) 100 3.5
mashed potato 1/2 cup 85 3.0
sweet potato 1 sm (5 oz) 146 4.0

Prunes pitted 3 122 1.9
Radishes 3 5 0.1
Raisins 1 tbsp 29 1.0
Raspberries 1/2 cup 20 4.6
Raspberry jam 1 tbsp 75 1.0
Rhubarb 1/2 cup 169 2.9
Rice white 1/2 cup 79 2.0
brown 1/2 cup 83 5.5
instant 1 serv 79 0.7
yellow turnip 1/2 cup 40 3.2
Sauerkraut 2/3 cup 15 3.1
Shredded wheat 1 piece 74 2.2
" SPOON SIZE 1 cup 168 4.4

Spaghetti 1 cup 200 5.6
with meat sauce 1 cup 396 5.6
with tomato " 1 cup 220 6.0

Spinach raw 1 cup 8 3.5
cooked 1/2 cup 26 7.0
Squash 1/2 cup 8 2.0
Strawberries 1 cup 45 3.0
Sunflower kernels 1 tbsp 65 0.5
Swt pickle relish 1 tbsp 60 0.5

Tomatoes raw 1 sm. 22 1.4
canned 1/2 cup 21 1.0
sauce 1/2 cup 20 0.5

Tortillas 2 140 4.0
Turnip 1/4 cup 8 1.2
cooked 1/2 cup 16 2.0
Walnuts 1 tbsp 49 1.1
Watercress raw 1/2 cup 4 1.0
Watermelon 1 thick slice 68 2.8
Yams 1 med (6oz) 156 6.8