UTIs, how common are they with Crohn's?

[num1habsfan]

Question for all of you (again, ha)...
It appears that I have (or had) a UTI yet AGAIN!! (blood in the urine). Started on thursday. I've had so many since getting my mysterious disease that I have lost count. I'm going to go to the hospital tomorrow morning, but my guess is it's already passed over. Still want to get checked just in case.

Sooo do you people with Crohn's get UTIs a lot??

~ Lisa ~

 

[Jeff D.]

I have never gotten UTI's thankfully. I wish you all the best and good luck at the hospital. Keep us updated.

 

[num1habsfan]

I have never gotten UTI's thankfully. I wish you all the best and good luck at the hospital. Keep us updated.

Thank you, Jeff. If I remember reading somewhere correctly, guys usually don't get them. SO i guess feel lucky in that way! I will keep you updated for sure, whenever I get back.

If its the same doctor when I went to the hospital a month or so ago I'm sure he'll be thinking "you again?" :tongue: . I swear sometimes I wish I'd just stay in there for good..

~ Lisa ~

 

[Jeff D.]

Yeah I kind of wished that my last hospital stay was a little longer than it had been I was there a week but I didn't feel good enough to leave when I did.

 

[Kev]

For whatever it's worth... but there's a homegrown method that supposedly does work to keep UTI's down... Just drink Cranberry Juice. Tons of people swear by it

 

[D Bergy]

The active ingredient in Cranberry juice that helps with bacteria is D-Mannose. It is a simple sugar that you can get in any health food store.

I also have a theory that the action of D-Mannose may help with Crohn's disease. I never got around to trying it because I resolved my problem a different way.

Here is the thinking. At least one theory has sticky E-coli as a main cause of our Crohn's symptoms. This sticky E-Coli imbeds itself into the intestinal wall and would either have to be killed or removed in order to heal and recover. The way in which this sticky E-Coli attaches itself is by binding to the Mannose created by the MAP bacteria from milk. Our intestinal tract also has a certain amount of D-Mannose naturally. Anyway, by taking D-Mannose orally you give the sticky E-coli something to bind to other than the intestinal wall. The bacteria does not care which it sticks to, but when it sticks to the D-Mannose you drink, hopefully it will be carried out of the body.

This is how it clears urinary tract infections, by allowing the E-Coli to attach to the D-Mannose in your bladder instead of the bladder wall.

I happen to give the most credence to this sticky E-Coli theory behind Crohn's. It fits everything else I know and have experienced with the disease.

There is a risk for using either the Cranberry Juice or the D-Mannose. I am not sure if the sticky E-Coli in the intestines will be as ready to come out as in the bladder. I am not sure of the mechanism of how it would be removed. I know it will stick to the D-Mannose, but how it gets out from the intestinal tract, I am not sure. It may spread it, and not come out at all. I doubt it, but I am not sure on that point.

Sorry to complicate a simple thing, but nothing is simple with Crohn's.

Dan

 

[D Bergy]

I don't feel I covered this well enough as far as what I see may be risky about D-Mannose. Fruits have some of this Mannose in it. This may be why it causes so much trouble in people with Crohn's. The Mannose binds with the E_coli, in our case Sticky E-Coli, and is carried out with the stool. Whenever the body is eliminating bacteria, the big D seems to come on.

This would not be a problem in a normal person. But in our case, the intestinal wall may be compromised. In another words we may have what as known as leaky gut. Certain substances in our intestinal tract may leak out causing other problems, most notably allergies. Our body is not supposed to have stuff from out intestinal tract go directly into out blood stream. But it probably does in our case, due to the bad bacteria eroding the mucous barrier.

The potential danger here is that while the D-Mannose will cause the sticky E-Coli to bind to itself, if we have a leaky gut, it could carry the sticky E-Coli into our blood stream instead of eliminating it, as it would in a normal person.

The other simple sugar that does much the same thing is Xylitol. Some Gum has this in it, and likely other food products as well.

Both have the potential to both clear our body of this sticky E-Coli, and make for a much larger problem if it caused the E-Coli to enter our blood stream.

This is the double edged sword I see with either of these sugars. It is partially theoretical, but if the theoretical part were to happen, it could be bad news.

I just thought I should mention this since I have thought it out before.

Dan

 

[Kev]

So, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Optimism, pessimism, or realism? The double edged scenario is accurate, there appears to be a definite risk involved. A definite benefit as well. Guess it boils down to... whether it's the bugs in the UT, or the ones in our GT, they're in there. Does one suffer it out, go for anti-biotics, (and we ALL know how much fun that is, esp. in combo with immuno suppressors) OR take a gamble on the occasional glass of cranberry juice. Sure, some folks will tip the scale by saying "at least the cranberry juice is a NATURAL product... " but then again, so is Belladonna. If it does work, and the UTI goes away, great. and would big 'D' be a sign it's working on the GT as well?.. What if one started showing symptoms of crohns in other parts of the body? Is the Cran Juice to blame, or would it have happened anyway? Would cutting back on the CJ slow the process? Probably not, the horse has bolted. I think, like a lot of things in life, there are times to play the odds. Afterall, for us, isn't life just one big 'crap' shoot anyway? I guess one could stack the deck in our favour a little bit... like avoid D-Mannose when we are flaring or showing a lot of signs of inflammation. And maybe adding more of it to our diet (for those of us on LDN anyway) after we've given our "drugs" time to allow our immune system to fix/repair our 'leaky' gut. Or am I being both over simplistic and also over optimistic? Or do we do nothing, cause we can't live a life with real risks?

 

[D Bergy]

I do not know the answer to what should be done, as that lies with the individual and their aversion to risk.

There are plenty of warning about Xylitol and Crohn's, but I have not found any about D-Mannose and Crohn's. They both bind to E-Coli so I think it is just a matter of time before it is found that D-Mannose presents the same problem. In the case of Xylitol it just appears to aggravate Crohn's. D-Mannose is not used as much commercially, but I suspect the same reaction is likely, at first anyway.

One person with Crohn's died as a result of a large dose of Xylitol after resection surgery. The Xylitol was infused instead of Glucose. The reaction was caused by some other mechanism that could only occur under these extreme circumstances. No one would ever get that much Xylitol under normal circumstances.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/m3544r731g430g77/

I was willing to give the D-Mannose a try, but I was going to start out with small amounts and work my way up slowly and note any reactions. I believe the reason it aggravates Crohn's is for the very same general reason my frequency experiments using E-Coli frequencies caused me pain in my intestines. When you mess with E-Coli, it messes with you.

When you Kill the E-Coli or do it damage, it likely releases some toxins like some other bacteria. This temporarily, "big guess" makes you feel worse. I ended that experiment since I did not know then, what I do now. Actually I should try it again, as it would give me a good indicator as to whether the bacteria is still present after using the Chlorine Dioxide and LDN. If I no longer react to the frequencies, this would be strong evidence, to me anyway, that E-Coli is the main culprit in Crohn's. That would make treating it easy.

When using Xylitol or D-Mannose, you are moving the bacteria around, on its way out, so I suppose this could make the symptoms worse for a while as it is floating around for a time wreaking havok. I think if you stuck with it for a longer time, it would eventually eliminate the bacteria. I have no idea how long that would take. But I would think a daily dose would show improvement in a month or so. Actually, if it worked, all you would have to do is take some everyday, and no more Crohn's.

I am too curious to leave a theory like that alone, so I would try it. I actually think it has a fair chance of working. But, like most everything, it has some risk.

I do not think I could do the experiment any more as I do not think I could improve in any way. I kind of wish I would have tried it earlier, as it has a lot of potential in my mind.

Dan

 

[D Bergy]

Dammit, I am setting up my frequency generator. I can't leave this alone now. I will see if I still react to those confounded E-Coli frequencies.

See what happens when you get me going?

Dan

 

[num1habsfan]

OK, I have to admit the both of you have just confused the heck out of me...

And by the way, it is in fact an UTI I have...just got back from the hospital.

~ Lisa ~

 

[D Bergy]

I have been confused about Crohn's for a long time. Join the club.

You can use Cranberry Juice as a remedy. The low concentration of D-Mannose should not bother you, but if it does, don't use it any more. It does not always resolve UTI, but quite often does.

Most people could use the stronger form of D-Mannose, but may not be a good idea because it could, in theory, release the E-Coli, from your intestines, into your bloodstream in large numbers. The odds of this are probably low, but it may be a remote possibility.

Or, you can get a prescription for whatever antibiotics they use for this. If you do use the antibiotics, drink some Green Tea also. This boosts the effectiveness of antibiotics a lot.

I do not know of any other methods that work, but a quick google couldn't hurt.

Dan

 

[Jeff D.]

Well I'm very interested in this so I'm going to start something for myself. I'm going to start next time I go to the market, within the next few days, and I will slowly introduce cranberry juice into my body so I can see if I get a reaction at small doses of D-Mannose. After a week of that I will introduce a D-Mannose supplement to my diet and see what happens. I figure someone has to try this stuff out so why shouldn't I try it.

Also, Dan where do you get a frequency generator and how much do they run. Thanks

Hey Lisa I'm glad your out of the hospital. I wish you the best of luck in getting rid of the UTI. Best of luck

 

[D Bergy]

You can buy them cheap on E-bay. These are just stock frequency generators with not too much power for this application, but they do work to an extent. They are used for many other things and are not hard to find. They are also referred to as function generators or signal generators. Here is some background information. The GB-4000 shown in the link is the one I have.

http://eregimens.com/therapies/MiscTherapies/Bioelectronics.htm

The one I have cost $2,400 new, and comes with an amplifier. This kind is designed specifically for this use. It is overpriced for what it is, but is real convenient and works well.

You can build your own. There are plans for a Rife/Bare set-up that many researchers us for this purpose. A smart young guy like yourself, could put one together and save some money in the process.

I would recommend joining the Rife Forum so you can learn what others are doing and the problems that are being worked on currently regarding this technology.
There are doctors, chemists, electrical engineers, and a wide variety of Lunatics and Oddballs that belong to this forum. You can sort them out fairly quickly. I am not sure what category I belong in, but I know it is not the first three.

http://www.rifeforum.com/

By the way, I ran the same frequencies that caused the adverse reaction in me twice before for E-Coli. I had no reaction to them this time. My conclusion is that there is a strong likelyhood that sticky E-Coli is the main bacteria that causes Crohn's symptoms. My unprofessional research indicates this, and more importantly a real researcher thinks this may be the case. We used completely different methods and came to the same conclusion.

Be careful with the experiments Jeff. You have to quit if things do not feel right.
I will be very interested in your findings.

Good Luck

Dan

 

[Jeff D.]

I will be extremely careful. If things don't seem right then I will stop immediately. Thanks for all of the information

 

[Guest]

i sometimes get a uti, but not very often, and i'm not sure if its crohns related or not. but at the first sign (seeing as i am allergic to quite a few antibiotics now) i start to drink more glasses of water in the day than normal, and 3 small glasses of cranberry juice. its quite rare that it continues and i have to resort to antibiotics. the water helps flush it out, helps stop the infection reaching the kidneys, & the cranberry juice seems to soothe if its one of those burning/stinging infections.

 

[AbstractDonut]

Are you on prednisone, maybe thats why you got a UTI?

 

[num1habsfan]

Are you on prednisone, maybe thats why you got a UTI?

Nah, I'm not on any meds for Crohn's because I've yet to get a diagnosis. By the way, the think I got for this UTI is Apo-Sulfatrim DS.

~ Lisa ~

 

[freedom]

all i know is when i am on a flareup which is 90% of the time, it is very very painful to pee but the doctors say nothings wrong in the urine tests, no blood.

 

[Kev]

Freedom... who are the doctors.. let me re-phrase that. for instance, over here a 'family' doctor is typically referred to as a 'General practictioer' (GP for short). That means a doctor who doesn't specialize in a specific field, but practices general family medicine. He/she would often refer a patient with IBD to a specialist. One who specialized in the field of gastro enterology... issues of the GI tract (they're often referred to as 'GI's for short, not to be confused with the name given to US soldiers during WWII)... Anyway, the fact there isn't any bleeding doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with your urinary tract. That may take consulting with another specialist... one who deals with the UT. they are called urologists here. Tho you don't have blood in your urine, there could be proteins... or mineral build up indicating stones... or other things that docs who don't specialize in the urinary tract MAYBE might miss. Why chance that? If possible, see if one of your current docs will arrange a consult with a urologist

 

[Colt]

They should probably do a barium leak check to see if maybe you have a fistula into your bladder. It's a common place to fistulize to and it would cause repeated bad UIs.