SCD/Paleo/GAPS Support Group

Crohn's Disease Forum

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I have been on SCD under the advice of a naturopath for almost 4 months and am feeling great! (full disclosure: I am also on Imuran, and a couple supplements). At my last appointment she suggested I add in quinoa and millet. I've tried a little quinoa a few times now, and so far so good. Anyone with experience adding those in? Or other thoughts/experiences tweaking SCD? I would really like to eventually add back sweet potatoes, rice, and chocolate.

I can definitely relate to those amazed by how much more you eat on this diet! It feels kind of crazy to get hungry so often when you feel like you're eating so much food! Those having trouble with low weight - I initially lost more weight starting SCD, but have put a few pounds on since adding avocado, coconut oil, and ghee. Are you eating those?

I think the most challenging part of SCD is realizing the emotional connection I have to food, the way I have used food, especially sugar, as a way to comfort or reward myself. It can be really trying, but I think being on SCD is making me stronger, physically and emotionally. It really tests and makes you aware of your own will power and motivation.
 
Hi there! I'm new to the group but have posted once somewhere on this site about my success with SCD. I am writing to share a frustration and see what your insights might be. I have had NO problems since being on SCD--all the "D" is gone, my cholesterol dropped 10 points, my inflammation numbers dropped..all good news. However, my GI has prescribed two separate anti-inflammatories since i was diagnosed with Crohns two months ago and with both I have suffered GREATLY. In fact this last one, Uceris, caused my "D" to return! I had been "D" free for over two months, my energy returned, feeling great. I was initially on Apriso--by day 9 a migraine and stiff neck began which lasted for a week...a nightmare. Stayed off two weeks then tried the Uceris. Stopped taking it last week and the headache only cleared up this morning. The plan was to start Humira in three weeks but at this point I want nothing to do with general medicines. Any thoughts to share from this wise group???? Thank you!
 
I can really relate to feeling uncomfortable about pharmaceuticals. I haven't experienced the severe side effects you describe, but I hated that my GI was only willing to talk about meds... Especially while I was seeing results from diet.

I have chosen to stay on Imuran, even though I feel like most of my recovery is due to the way I am eating, because it makes me feel more secure, like I am covering myself from two angles. However, I started Imuran and SCD around the same time. I can understand why you would be hesitant to start a new medication when you already feel well without it.

When I was freaked out by my GI only focusing on meds, I chose to see a naturopath in addition to my GI to approach my treatment from multiple perspectives, and that is the best decision I've made for my health. Perhaps it would be helpful to get another doctor's perspective?
 
Joie de vivre, has your doctor explained his or her rationale for prescribing the additional medication?

You might want to consider changing to a doctor who has a broader perspective. (Easier said than done, though -- we're still looking for that kind of doctor for my daughter. We have found three of them. One doesn't accept our insurance, one is 71 years old and therefore doesn't seem like a longterm option, and the third doesn't see pediatric patients at all.) Where are you located? Maybe someone here can offer suggestions, or you can look in the Doctor Directory here.
 
Hi Ibligh! My Dr. wants to reduce the inflammation from the Crohns and Colitis but I am having no outward signs of the disease (i.e. "D"). I went from 20x daily to 3 on Day 5 of the intro diet (in February) and have sense not had problems…until Uceris. Today I started back on the Intro Diet and will follow for 2-3 days.
I went to see my wonderful holistic MD two weeks ago and together we formulated a plan. I started on compounded LDN (1.5 and will work up to 4.5). And I am also using a combo of supplements and herbals, slowly! Trying to add one item and wait about a week. So I am currently med free and seemingly OK (with the exception of just starting out on the LDN). BTW, I live in Raleigh, NC and highly recommend Dr. Beverly Goode. She is a life-saver but very difficult to get in to see--usually 3-4 month waiting time. Well worth it in my opinion.
 
P.S. I see my GI the third week of June and if I am doing well, will inform him that I do not intend using any meds if I don't absolutely have to. :)
 
Hi, I am trying to decide which diet to try. There is the SCD!, the perfect health diet, gaps, etc... I don't seem to have much trouble with any foods except deep fried so I'm not sure which one to choose.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! :)
 
I'm not familiar with the perfect health diet, but I love the SCD. It gives you a lot of freedom and a lot of choices. I've done GAPS...I think it has a lot to offer but it's too restrictive and regimented for me. Good luck!
 
SusanB2001 said:
Hi, I am trying to decide which diet to try. There is the SCD!, the perfect health diet, gaps, etc... I don't seem to have much trouble with any foods except deep fried so I'm not sure which one to choose.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! :)
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They are all Real-food, paleo-based with small differences.
Gaps and SCd (and Paleo A/I protocol) all have 'introductory phases'.

These are very important and have two main function
1- To allow a degree of healing to take place by only eating easy to digest nourishing foods for a short time (mainly bone broth)
2- To allow the identification (and avoidance) of problem foods (with retesting and possible reintroduction at a later stager).

Just because it is a "legal/allowed" food does not mean that an individual should be eating it at this stage of their journey

Perfect health diet is the least restrictive but does not have an introductory phase and also does not involve carbohydrate restriction which MAY be a very important part of rebalancing the gut bacteria. (so maybe start with one of the others for a few months and switch later?)

SCD is the oldest and does allow some foods that i would avoid like the plague (peanuts, seed oils(?)

PHD and GAPS place more emphasis on probiotics (other than yoghurt) but SCD probably has the most support, including a lot of 'what to do if it is not working'.

SCD and GAPS are both very low carb and there is some evidence that long term carbohydrate restriction can lead to thyroid problems so i would look at adding some (paleo) carbs back after 4-6 months if they are tolerated.

Apart from minor differences they are largely the same- REAL FOOD, not food like products
 
Thanks Hugh and Isabelle for your replies/suggestions.

I think I will try the PHD first as I'm not much of a cook and this seems to be the least restrictive and has less need for cooking with nut flours etc...

Giving up ice cream will be my biggest challenge ( I'm quite the addict!) but I do not want to go on any meds so I guess I must just buckle down and get with the program.

:)
 
SusanB2001 said:
Giving up ice cream will be my biggest challenge
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Frozen bananas blended in a food processor is a surprisingly satisfying ice cream substitute. It is actually kind of magical how much the texture is like ice cream. I peel and cut up ripe bananas and keep them in a freezer bag. You can use just bananas, or add other fruits or nuts for a different flavor.

Here's a yummy combination:

http://empoweredsustenance.com/ginger-strawberry-sorbet/
 
Hi All, I'm new to this site and to this thread. I have had GI issues my whole life, pretty much, and different test results pointed to IBD. I was always putting off the colonoscopy so never got a diagnosis. CT scan shows inflammation in cecum/ileum. I've had different "flares" off and on, but had really bad symptoms many years ago, before going gluten free. I feel like that has helped this from seriously progressing. I have read about these diets and other anti-inflammatory diets. My husband recently read the perfect health diet, written by two harvard scientists, and that diet seems like it might work. It does include "rice" and other non-grain foods, though. I'm just wondering if anyone has ever tried that? I am afraid of entirely removing all starch as I am way, way underweight and already am so limited in what I can eat (in the middle of a flare right now, ever since I had to drink all that barium :)). I need to gain some weight (i'm under 100 and 5'3") but want to do an an anti-inflammatory diet. Tips welcome, thanks!
 
I just read The Perfect Health Diet and purely from a feasibility standpoint, it seems better for me than the more restrictive diets. I didn't think diary bothered me until I went to the trouble of ordering a pizza with gluten free crust and was cramping up after my first piece. PHD encourages good fats and achieving balance and optimal nutrition in your diet as a whole. The say people lose weight on it when they cut out things they were overeating to begin with.
 
Thanks, yes it seems like the easiest one for me, too. I definitely cannot eat cheese right now...even the aged ones, maybe in a few months. I just need to find a way to get more calories in even when I'm feeling sick.
 
People, are additives in commercial gluten free bread unhealty? What is their degree of unhealtyness? Do you have any info/idea?
 
I'm sure it varies brand to brand but I'd imagine that yes, there are unhealthy additives. Even if you look at a recipe for grain-free breads & baked goods, they're FULL of nut flour.
 
Nancye50 said:
I just read The Perfect Health Diet and purely from a feasibility standpoint,
Click to expand...
PHD is a great start, it will get you into the idea of only eating real foods rather than 'food-like products', It will remove or limit many of the foods that are causing problems.

BUT it may not be enough, There are many foods that are 'allowed' on a PHD diet that you may be having issues with and the only way to find out is to test them.
If you find it isn't working (or isn't working well enough) then please consider a testing regime to identify which foods are causing problems for YOU.
A structured testing program like GAPS[1]/SCD[2]/Paleo A/I[3]/FODMAPS[4] may be required to make real progress
Nancye50 said:
it seems better for me than the more restrictive diets. I didn't think diary bothered me until I went to the trouble of ordering a pizza with gluten free crust and was cramping up after my first piece.
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May have been the dairy but just as likely to have been a different short chain carbohydrate (whatever flour or sweeteners in the crust or sauce) fermenting away, or an additive in the gluten free crust or sauce.
(Many people who do better on GF diets do so because they are not eating the specific fructans in wheat, rather than not eating gluten)

[1] http://www.gapsdiet.com/INTRODUCTION_DIET.html
[2] http://pecanbread.com/f/how/introdiet.html
[3] http://aiplifestyle.com/what-is-autoimmune-protocol-diet/
[4] http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=65937
 
I'm doing modified paleo diet(rice, rice flour and potatoes included) but, would these poly-carbs cause bacterial,fungal overgrowth with moderate consume? I can't consume any fermented foods(including non diary fermented foods) because they trigger my migraine. Should I use probiotic pills everyday to prevent SIBO-like situations?
 
Thanks Hugh. I haven't read the links bc I'm waiting for the chance to actually get to a computer. Didn't want to leave you hanging!
 
Crohn2357 said:
I'm doing modified paleo diet(rice, rice flour and potatoes included) but, would these poly-carbs cause bacterial,fungal overgrowth with moderate consume? I can't consume any fermented foods(including non diary fermented foods) because they trigger my migraine. Should I use probiotic pills everyday to prevent SIBO-like situations?
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It's all very individual,
some will feel better straight away on that diet,
others will need a carb restriction to bring bacteria back under control.
Once you have SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth) you probably need to starve out the bacteria that are in the small intestine. That might be by restricting specific carbs or it might be by total carb reduction.
I was two years on lowish-carb paleo before switching to PHD (rice, potatoes). SIBO may be causing the probiotic problems (by making you intolerant to histamines)

listen to this podcast, might help, but it is individual.......
RHR: How to Restore Healthy Gut Flora Over the Long-Term
"We got a question from .......... and it was how to restore gut flora and function when unable to tolerate probiotics and fermented foods not likely due to histamine allergy. This is a great question, it’s one that I get a lot, and it turns out there are several potential reasons why somebody may not be able to tolerate fermented foods or probiotics.....
......From what I’ve seen, it depends on the type of bacteria that’s overgrown in SIBO. It also depends on the specific nature of the dysbiosis. You could have not enough good bacteria and too much bad bacteria, and that can cause probiotic intolerance. I’ve seen gut infections cause probiotic intolerance, like parasite infections, particularly. Inflammatory bowel disease can cause probiotic intolerance because in some cases in IBD people react negatively to their own commensal gut bacteria, the bacteria that’s normally in their gut, and if you introduce new bacteria to a really inflamed gut, that can also be problematic even if those bacteria are beneficial.
http://chriskresser.com/how-to-restore-healthy-gut-flora-over-the-long-term

Probiotic supplements -
"Before we get into the good stuff we have to touch on Bifidobacteria. It’s a hot topic in the SCD community for the reason that it can “take over” and cause health problems in some cases.
It is a beneficial bacteria, but the problem is, it’s just not a good neighbor at times. So sometimes it can overgrow in and of itself."
http://scdlifestyle.com/2011/08/scd-probiotics-what-you-really-need-to-know/
 
Thanks. Rice and potatoes are nutritious; hard to gain weight without gluten free poly carbs like these... I'm taking general yoghurt starter cultures in pill form but with innate immune deficiencies specific to bacterial handling, ongoing inflammation and dysbiosis of all digestive system(from mouth to anus); I don't know if general well known lactobacillus, bifidobacterium and streptoccocus would ever have any protective role(regarding bacterial and/or fungal overgrowth). It is very hard to manage your diet if it is just all based on good quality animal protein and animal fat. Vegetables are problem if there is active crohn's; also they are not nutritious. Not much calorie and proteins, minerals and vitamins in plants are hard to digest when compared to cooked meat. Very low carb paleo is nearly unmanageable.
 
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Crohn2357 said:
Very low carb paleo is nearly unmanageable.
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I disagree, for a short period ketogenic is easy to do and it starves the bad bacteria out.
It may be one of the most important steps in the diet (but iv'e heard good arguemens for and against carb restriction)

If your diet is working without carb restriction then great,
If not then the next step is to do the diet properly (as laid out by the creators).....
More than a couple of months could be harmful (depending on who you listen to)
 
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Hi all im starting the PHD plan and am wondering why peanuts/ homemade penut butter isn't allowed? I have Crohn's with fistulating disease and jpouch. Im hoping this can help reduce inflammation. Im wondering if anyone here has any experience with this diet plan in closing fistulas and/or anyone with a jpouch who is on this diet.
thanks
 
Thanks Hugh, im ordering the book, hopefully ill learn more about why certain foods are a avoided from reading.
 
All - I know making the homemade yogurt is a chore for some, especially given the small size of the makers and the consistent need to remake batches (2 - 3 times a week if one is eating it religiously or has a sizeable family.)

Thank god for Warren Buffet - BrodandTaylor, a Berkshire subsidary, makes a very useful, easy to store yogurt maker that can make up to 8 (EIGHT!!!) quarts at a time. It has a temperature control, and is very useful. I generally wake up on Saturday morning and make the full batch using ball canning jars and have enough for a week (sometimes 2!). This is an excellent option if you are busy or have kids to feed.

Thanks!

http://brodandtaylor.com/folding-proofer/homemade-yogurt/
 
I make yogurt twice a week now and it takes no more than 15 minutes of work.
Heat milk, let it cool a couple of hours, stir in starter or plain yogurt and that's it.
 
Hey guys
Can eny one help me to reinduce food back in To mmy life I haven't has any sold food for too years only been in nutrica shakes
&I just want to try again but I don't no where to start
Please help x
 
kikidee1994 said:
Hey guys
Can eny one help me to reinduce food back in To mmy life I haven't has any sold food for too years only been in nutrica shakes
&I just want to try again but I don't no where to start
Please help x
Click to expand...

I'm not an expert, but I would recommend that you start with pureed food, then if that goes well move on to very soft foods and low residue foods and work your way up to a more regular food diet. Take it slow and listen to your body. If something hurts, go back to your shakes, give your body time to recover, and then try again. Good luck! :)
 
Well, today is my 4th day of scd. I did the intro for 3 days, and I just started adding puréed cooked apples. I wish I could say I see some improvement, but none whatsoever so far.
I have tried since diagnosis to manage my crohns with diet (I did EEN for a month, and then followed Professor Hunter's elimination and lofflex diets). Mostly I have remained well the past three years with a combination of diet and asacol. Now since the birth of my daughter 3 months ago I am starting to have symptoms and my calprotectin is raised. I have always been curious about scd and said I would try it before resorting to stronger meds, so here I am.
 
helena101 said:
Well, today is my 4th day of scd. I did the intro for 3 days, and I just started adding puréed cooked apples. I wish I could say I see some improvement, but none whatsoever so far.
I have tried since diagnosis to manage my crohns with diet (I did EEN for a month, and then followed Professor Hunter's elimination and lofflex diets). Mostly I have remained well the past three years with a combination of diet and asacol. Now since the birth of my daughter 3 months ago I am starting to have symptoms and my calprotectin is raised. I have always been curious about scd and said I would try it before resorting to stronger meds, so here I am.
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Heybhave you seen the book for the scd ? Its called breaking the cycle its meant to be great I've ordered it of Amazon so finger crossed it helps me out my be u could look in to the book
&if you haven't tried it I've seen a lot of people say its took some time to build evrythink up from the beginning
I'm yet to start but I have to do a chicken broth for a month as I've having been able to eat sold food for over 2 years
My by you shud try it and research it a bit to understand because ATM I'm looking in to it n my lordy its quite hard when your doing it by your self
I hope it works for you and you can make better sense of it then me !!! I'm a bit stupid lol
 
I'm only posting because I think it's helpful to everyone when we report results, both good and bad.
So, I did a dairy-free scd intro for 3 days, followed by another 5 days of meat/fish/chicken, eggs, applesauce and puréed boiled carrots. Small amounts of the fruit and veg as I know that lots of fiber gives me D. I got instantly worse on this diet, so I am not sticking with it, because I am also breastfeeding and I don't feel it's providing me with enough calories or nutrients. If I wasn't breastfeeding I would give it more time, and perhaps try the diet without eggs.
Instead I have returned to the LOFFLEX diet, which I don't think gets enough mention on this forum. But it is a much better diet in my opinion for a sick person because it is easier to maintain your weight, and it excludes all the common offenders for crohnies (all grains apart from rice, all dairy, and doesn't allow too much fiber or fat etc). My symptoms immediately improved on this diet. The scd it seems is not for me.
 
Agent99, SCD is the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, which was developed for people with ulcerative colitis, Crohn's, and (I think) celiac disease. As you note, it is similar to the Paleo diet. Among the major differences, SCD allows some dairy products: aged cheese and SCD yogurt (fermented for 24 hours) and butter. SCD doesn't allow sweet potatoes, cocoa, potatoes, maple syrup, or agave.
 
kikidee1994 said:
&if you haven't tried it I've seen a lot of people say its took some time to build evrythink up from the beginning
I'm yet to start but I have to do a chicken broth for a month as I've having been able to eat sold food for over 2 years
My by you shud try it and research it a bit to understand because ATM I'm looking in to it n my lordy its quite hard when your doing it by your self
I hope it works for you and you can make better sense of it then me !!! I'm a bit stupid lol
Click to expand...

kikidee, it's not that bad, you only do the intro diet (chicken broth etc.) for a couple of days[1].
Then there are 'stages' of reintroducing foods[2]
If you look at the list of allowed foods on the intro diet page[1]it is quite long, but some of those foods may not be well tolerated (eggs and yougurt) - i would leave them out and reintroduce with the early stages of the SCD diet[2].
Remember - just because it is a 'legal' food does not mean YOU can tolerate it. The purpose of the intro and stages is to test yourself by adding one food at a time and seeing if you are ok with it.

Please keep in mind a few things......
-this is what is called a very-low carb diet, you may go through a stage called 'the low-carb flue'[3], don't worry about it unless it goes on for a week or more (and if it is unbearable/too much then have a small amount of paleo carbs(tubers) or white rice.
It is your body adjusting to using fat instead of carbs, and it is normal.
-you may feel bad due to what is called 'die-off'[4].
Once again, it is your body adjusting and to be expected.

And another thing...
SCD is a 'paleo' based diet and while many find it helps, some do not. It may need to be customised and you may want to switch over to paleo as it is a better overall diet (although there are many different interpretations and some of them are whacky)

[1] The SCD Intro Diet
"How long should I stay on the intro diet?
The intro diet should be done for two to three days, four to five days for those with diarrhea. Some people end up staying on the intro for weeks and wonder why they experience extreme fatigue etc..FIVE DAYS IS THE MAXIMUM.
During those two to five days the person can eat as much of any of the foods that are on the intro diet. Some eat the chicken soup for the entire time others just stick to meatballs and carrots for their snacks and meals."
http://pecanbread.com/f/how/introdiet.html

[2] The Stages of SCD
"-Introduce ONE new food at a time- a two to four day interval is a great (but not mandatory) guideline for introducing new foods. This will make it possible determine whether each new food can be tolerated.
-This chart is based on the healing process that is taking place.
It is not based on a timeline. Some people may be able to add new foods more quickly than others."
http://pecanbread.com/p/how/stages.html

[3]All About the “Low-carb flu”
"If you’ve ever dramatically reduced your carbohydrate intake, you might have felt it already: it’s that first few days of headaches, brain fog, crankiness, and constant, dragging exhaustion"
http://paleoleap.com/low-carb-flu/

[4] Did SCD, GAPS, or Paleo Make You Feel Worse?
"Die-off can feel so bad you’ll want to quit before you can get better
I’m not going to lie to you, die-off can cause pretty awful symptoms, and many times it will cause symptoms that are worse than before you started the diet."
http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/05/did-scd-gaps-or-paleo-make-you-feel-worse/
 
Also, I have the Against All Grain cookbook and am quite turned off by the use of other flours & substitute ingredients. Does anyone have thoughts on those or experience with them? I'm ready to move away from white carbs and make some pretty food.
 
I'm battling my first flare of Crohn's and I've been trying a paleo/specific carbohydrate diet kind of routine. I'm 110 pounds, 5'3" and I'm doing about 70 grams of protein, 70 grams of fat and 70 grams of carbs. My naturopath that I work with she recommends doing as low of carbs as I can so I can digest everything easily.

I worry that I'm eating too many carbs, and sometimes I worry if it's not enough. my naturopath feels the more carbs the harder it is for my Crohn's to digest food. but then I think maybe it's too much protein, maybe I should try and do more carbs less protein and see how I feel. 70 feels like the lowest I can bare to do, it's like a sweet potato/zucchini/apple sauce/banana and I've hit 70 carbs. I should also mention in my Crohn's Flare I've lost 20 pounds, mostly muscle. I'm trying to get some exercise and get back on my feet.

It's like 25 percent of calories is from carbs and 25 from protein and 50 from fat. Does this sound pretty balanced? It's such a different diet I feel like I have so few resources to talk to.
 
What else are you doing to battle this first flare? I'm not sure right now is the best time to experiment with diet. Rather, I'd say it's the time to find safe foods and stick to them. At the very least, evaluate your diet for fiber. Fiber is the hardest thing for our guts to digest, not carbs in general. You'll see many on here that, even if they eat SCD/Paleo, have to resort to low residue in a flare. It's concerning that you're restricting your diet so harshly while you're losing weight too. I hope you're able to find what works for you!
 
Almondmilk said:
I'm battling my first flare of Crohn's and I've been trying a paleo/specific carbohydrate diet kind of routine.
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I'm not having a go but.........
........ that could mean almost anything
If you haven't done the SCD intro diet (with the elimination and reintroduction of foods, and the bone broth etc) then you are not doing the SCD diet.
There are so many interpretations of Paleo, from the caveman caricature diet through to well thought out, balanced whole real food diets that the label doesn't convey much information.

Almondmilk said:
I'm 110 pounds, 5'3" and I'm doing about 70 grams of protein, 70 grams of fat and 70 grams of carbs. My naturopath that I work with she recommends doing as low of carbs as I can so I can digest everything easily.
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I'm not having a go but.........
I agree with the lowering of carbs, (for SCD) but if you are eating 70gms of carbs from bread or pasta of 'gluten-free' cookies then you are wasting your time,.
If you are getting 70gms from sweet potato or yams then there is no problem (from a paleo point of view but not SCD),
Eat more (safe paleo) carbs if you are hungry (on paleo but not SCD)
There is no basis for limiting fats and protein in either paleo or SCD, NONE, especially if you are underweight.

You have some other 'diet' ideology that you need to ditch before you can do SCD/Paleo......

If you eat less carbs you want more fat, as you need energy.
All vegetables have carbs but non-starchy veggies aren't counted on SCD
If 'legal' foods are tolerated (after elimination and reintroduction/challenge) then they can be consumed. Obviously a diet based on nut flour and honey will be less nutritious and healing than bone broth and boiled chicken.

It is easier if you know what to expect and what the pitfalls are.
Is your naturapath familiar. or even better, competent with SCD and paleo diets?
YOU need to read up and decide if you are doing a diet of playing around (which is fine but you can't blame the diet if you don't get results.)
Even on SCD or any other 'diet' you will need to play around and see what works.

Almondmilk said:
I worry that I'm eating too many carbs, and sometimes I worry if it's not enough. my naturopath feels the more carbs the harder it is for my Crohn's to digest food. but then I think maybe it's too much protein, maybe I should try and do more carbs less protein and see how I feel. 70 feels like the lowest I can bare to do, it's like a sweet potato/zucchini/apple sauce/banana and I've hit 70 carbs. I should also mention in my Crohn's Flare I've lost 20 pounds, mostly muscle. I'm trying to get some exercise and get back on my feet.
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Worry is not helping so don't..........
If you lower the carbs you will (probably) experience a couple of things,
Low carb flu and die-off, -google them.
It takes a period of time to adjust from being a sugar burner to being a fat burner and this first week puts many off, they think something is wrong or that they are not getting enough of something, but it is normal.
As the bacteria die off you may also feel unwell, but think of it as 'toxins' leaving your body if that helps.
Neither of these should last more than the first week so if it continues seek help as it's not die off or low carb flu.

Gentle exercise – walking, playing, being outside in bare feet......

Almondmilk said:
It's like 25 percent of calories is from carbs and 25 from protein and 50 from fat. Does this sound pretty balanced? It's such a different diet I feel like I have so few resources to talk to.
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That sounds perfect but don't worry about getting it just right,
SCD is NO starchy carbs, full stop, end of story.
Paleo is (depending on your approach/guru/book) anything from 'Very-Low-Carb' to 'as-much-as-you want-if-you-have-no-problem-with-them-but-only-SAFE-paleo-carbs'.
It is unwise to try to have both a percentage and a total quantity in mind.
Ditch the total and eat if you are hungry, The percentages sound very good so long as you are eating enough and digesting and absorbing it.

These are good sources of information for SCD
The SCD Intro Diet
“What is the purpose of doing the intro diet?
The intro diet helps get a head start on clearing the harmful microbes out of the body by starving them while at the same time feeding the body nutritious foods that are easy to digest.
How long should I stay on the intro diet?
The intro diet should be done for two to three days, four to five days for those with diarrhea. Some people end up staying on the intro for weeks and wonder why they experience extreme fatigue etc..FIVE DAYS IS THE MAXIMUM."
http://pecanbread.com/f/how/introdiet.html

The Stages of SCD - Beyond the Intro Diet
“Introduce ONE new food at a time- a two to four day interval is a great (but not mandatory) guideline for introducing new foods. This will make it possible determine whether each new food can be tolerated.
This chart is based on the healing process that is taking place.
It is not based on a timeline. Some people may be able to add new foods more quickly than others. “
http://pecanbread.com/p/how/stages.html

The #1 Reason People Fail on the SCD Diet… and Never Get to Feel Better
“Only introduce a new food if you have been free of diarrhea, constipation, and other mental/physical symptoms for four days. When deciding what foods to introduce next, follow our phasing charts or the stages diagrams from pecanbread.com and step through them one by one… don’t jump ahead. When you try that new food, eat it for four days without changing anything else so you can know exactly what reaction, if any, you had to that food. Track all your symptoms in a journal or you will be chasing your tail trying to figure out what happen when you spent the entire day on the toilet!”
http://scdlifestyle.com/2010/02/the-1-reason-people-fail-on-the-scd-diet/

This is a good paleo starter
Paleo Autoimmune Protocol Print-Out Guides
“Don’t be confused and think that this is what I think everyone with autoimmunity should be eating all the time – I learned this the hard way by posting them to my facebook page this week, and getting angry messages from people who couldn’t believe I was telling them to eat this way forever! Instead, they are meant to be compliant with the autoimmune protocol, which is a temporary elimination diet (although for some of us, it can feel anything but temporary!). After the elimination period (I recommend 30-60 days), you can reintroduce foods, one at a time, to see how they are tolerated and if they should be included in your diet.”
http://autoimmune-paleo.com/paleo-autoimmune-protocol-print-out-guides/

What is Autoimmune Paleo or AIP Diet?
“The Autoimmune Protocol is a diet that helps heal the immune system and gut mucosa. It is applicable to any inflammatory disease.”
http://aiplifestyle.com/what-is-autoimmune-protocol-diet/

The Autoimmune Protocol
“. It is very simply an extremely nutrient-dense diet that is devoid of foods that irritate the gut, cause gut dysbiosis and activate the immune system. You will not be missing out on any nutrients and this diet is absolutely appropriate to follow for the rest of your life.”
http://www.thepaleomom.com/autoimmunity/the-autoimmune-protocol

And this is a great paleo based carb allowed real food diet and the reasoning behind it for gut disease.

The Perfect Health Diet
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/

Bowel Disorders, Part I: About Gut Disease (read all 4 parts)
“These diseases probably develop through a hierarchy of causes:
Food toxins damage the intestine and make it leaky to gut bacteria and bacterial proteins.
Malnutrition impairs the immune response to toxins and slows the healing of intestinal injuries. This makes the intestine even more leaky and damaged.
Damaged immunity allows bacteria to penetrate the gut mucosa and infect intestinal cells, and to enter the body and create systemic infections including intracellular infections of immune cells. The immune response to these infections creates an inflammatory environment which makes the gut even leakier. The infections also weaken the ability of the immune system to heal the gut.
Entry of toxins and bacteria into the body leads to autoimmunity. Food toxins conjugate with human proteins and provoke antibodies against the human protein; bacterial proteins that are ‘molecular mimics’ of human proteins engender antibodies that strike both the bacterial and human proteins.
Autoimmunity leads to further damage to the gut and to other tissues, like the thyroid, which are important for immune function and wound healing. Hypothyroidism, for instance, promotes disease progression.
In its early stages, development of the disease may be accelerated by a long course of antibiotics or an infection that causes severe diarrhea. These kill healthful gut bacteria and facilitate their replacement by pathogens.
If we prioritize these in terms of damage caused, then ulcerative colitis is an infectious and autoimmune disease, since these two factors do the most severe damage. It is generally unclear which is doing the most damage. Food toxins and malnutrition continue to be secondary sources of damage.
On the other hand, if we prioritize chronologically in terms of the original causes, the disease is originally caused by food toxins and malnutrition and sometimes antibiotics, which cause intestinal damage and infections, followed by autoimmunity.“
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/07/ulcerative-colitis-a-devastating-gut-disease/


Happy Reading, and happy eating
 
hugh said:
Worry is not helping so don't..........
If you lower the carbs you will (probably) experience a couple of things,
Low carb flu and die-off, -google them.
It takes a period of time to adjust from being a sugar burner to being a fat burner and this first week puts many off, they think something is wrong or that they are not getting enough of something, but it is normal.
As the bacteria die off you may also feel unwell, but think of it as 'toxins' leaving your body if that helps.
Neither of these should last more than the first week so if it continues seek help as it's not die off or low carb flu.
Click to expand...

Do Gut Bacteria Rule Our Minds?
http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2014/08/116526/do-gut-bacteria-rule-our-minds


Aditionally, if food toxins are the cause of the leaky gut; then why other people don't get it?
 
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Hey. Just wondering how those on the SCD diet avoid 'illegal' ingredients in medications such as lactose and rice flour. Those are two ingredients found in medications I take. I also stopped taking a multivitamin that contained sorbitol syrup, but I know that I can easily find an alternative multivit.

Thanks
 
Lewis - In the book BTVC, Elaine says not to worry if your meds contain illegals because you need to take the meds your doctor prescribes.

I've been on the same hunt for my daughter - found vit D drops that contain nothing else but oil. I may add back in a multivitamin (hard to find one with no illegals that a kid can take) later after I determine if the diet is working for her.
 
:sign0085:

I started the scd last winter and did pretty well for a number of months. Over time, i seemd to get worse and with a stressful fall, my guts have been awful. I know it's at least partly my fault for not being careful and for eating too much honey and introducing things without being careful enough.

So now, here I am on prednisone and restarting scd tomorrow. From scratch.

Anyone have any ideas about starting while on prednisone?

Thanks, karen
 
My daughter was on prednisone when she started. I suspect a lot of people use the diet to get themselves off the steroids, and stick with it from there.
 
How do I join this support group?

Mom to 14 yo son w/ crohn's. We used SCD successfully for first flare. Went off the diet after 2 years on. Now in a flare and can't seem to get SCD to work again. Would like some feedback on what's going wrong.
 
Hi girls out,

Try looking at scdlifestyle.com. They have ideas for when things aren't working right. like foods that tend to give trouble or supplements to try.

Good luck.
 
Girl scout, I'm sorry to hear that and hope someone here has answers for you.


I'm also mom to teen boy diagnosed in August. He is doing Pred taper and about 70 percent scd (we are militant) and 30% EN. Hoping our good luck continues

May I ask if he takes maintenance meds, how scd worked and why you stopped?

Wishing your son good health.
 
Hi Optimistic,

Here's my response about his maintenance - It's long so I don't want you to miss my question for you...how do you manage alternating SCD and Elemental? Isn't Elemental full of SCD illegals?

Here is the answer about his maintenance (and more)
He's been on 6MP for about 4 years. His initial treatment was 6mp, pred and budesonide. He was tapered off the steroids about 6 months after diagnosis, but he really wasn't feeling better and weight was down. Then he contracted Lyme disease, and had heavy doses of antibiotics for that. At that point, we began SCD.

The first 6 weeks were tough (low energy, no interest in food) but after that things turned around and he just got better and better. After 2 years on SCD (with 6mp as maintenance) I allowed him stop SCD. At that time, He was in middle school with all the associated teenage-boy separation from mom stuff that goes along with it. SCD became a major source of conflict. And, I thought he was depressed because there were so many social activities revolving around food that he would not participate in because it made him "different". (His perspective not mine.) Plus, he cheated all the time and I got frustrated making all the effort to cook scd for him, just to have him undermine it. Eventually we were going on vacation and after years of cooking on vacation, we were planning to say in a hotel for a couple nights (a first in a long time) I gave in to eating "regular". (I didn't mention above that he refuses to eat vegetables and fruit, so I always worried that his nutrients were limited and still are!)

He began to flare this summer after 1 year off SCD. I mentioned in my previous post that he is back on SCD, taking Pred and 6MP. His Dr wants to end Pred, and I agree because it's not working (again.) Dr's first proposal was Remicadee/ Methotrexate. We are balking at that, of course, so he called the other day suggesting (Polymeric ) EN (Boost/ensure). Doing my research today, I believe we could do a pureed SCD intro instead of Boost/Ensure, but that would be just the 3-5 days of intro, then on to introducing new foods.
 
Cit, I am baffled by your claim that SCD lacks nutrients. I can't come up with a single nutrient that we are not getting in abundance.

We had this conversation with our doctor, who felt that we would be better off putting our daughter on a chemotherapy drug (6MP) rather than relying on the diet that put her into total remission almost instantly. "Selenium," she mentioned. WRONG -- seafood is a great source, also meat and dairy products. Got that covered. "Magnesium?" NOPE -- leafy greens, seeds and nuts, and fish.

The vast majority of "illegal" foods are not good for you anyway, and there's nothing in whole grains that cannot be obtained easily from SCD-legal foods.
 
I completely agree about grass-fed meats, eggs, and dairy. Also wild-caught fish, not farmed. Better for your gut, better for the earth, for a lot of reasons.
 
My simplistic reaction to your situation is that he had heavy antibiotics before starting SCD the first time. Maybe his gut was primed for it the first time around?
 
girlscout said:
Hi Optimistic,

Here's my response about his maintenance - It's long so I don't want you to miss my question for you...how do you manage alternating SCD and Elemental? Isn't Elemental full of SCD illegals?

Here is the answer about his maintenance (and more)
He's been on 6MP for about 4 years. His initial treatment was 6mp, pred and budesonide. He was tapered off the steroids about 6 months after diagnosis, but he really wasn't feeling better and weight was down. Then he contracted Lyme disease, and had heavy doses of antibiotics for that. At that point, we began SCD.

The first 6 weeks were tough (low energy, no interest in food) but after that things turned around and he just got better and better. After 2 years on SCD (with 6mp as maintenance) I allowed him stop SCD. At that time, He was in middle school with all the associated teenage-boy separation from mom stuff that goes along with it. SCD became a major source of conflict. And, I thought he was depressed because there were so many social activities revolving around food that he would not participate in because it made him "different". (His perspective not mine.) Plus, he cheated all the time and I got frustrated making all the effort to cook scd for him, just to have him undermine it. Eventually we were going on vacation and after years of cooking on vacation, we were planning to say in a hotel for a couple nights (a first in a long time) I gave in to eating "regular". (I didn't mention above that he refuses to eat vegetables and fruit, so I always worried that his nutrients were limited and still are!)

He began to flare this summer after 1 year off SCD. I mentioned in my previous post that he is back on SCD, taking Pred and 6MP. His Dr wants to end Pred, and I agree because it's not working (again.) Dr's first proposal was Remicadee/ Methotrexate. We are balking at that, of course, so he called the other day suggesting (Polymeric ) EN (Boost/ensure). Doing my research today, I believe we could do a pureed SCD intro instead of Boost/Ensure, but that would be just the 3-5 days of intro, then on to introducing new foods.
Click to expand...

Hi Girl Scout. I know the mix of scd and boost seems counterintuitive. Our dr has been publishing on scd as well as En. He and his dietician recommended as much EN as possible, up to 80 percent EN which performs like 100 EN in peds, and then scd for any food. They gave us samples of many formulas and Boost is son's favorite for taste. He is doing s pred wean. This is in lieu of meds for now as a first approach. I asked about an scd legal formula and they were not aware of one. I think boost is gluten free but loaded with sugar. I hate to guess why it is allowed because honestly I'm still trying to determine which of what I've read is someone's opinion and what is based on something credible...I hate to be that person who further confuses someone else... but I will guess anyway! Could it be that in liquid the complex sugars do not need to be digested? I will ask when we go back.

In meantime I'd love feedback from those with scd success. Do you supplement with any liquids? This is so convenient for son to take to school lunch and to up calorie intake each day.

Girl Scout - the social aspect of a teen on scd is brutal. I dropped off food for host to serve him at a Halloween party. He was mortified.
 
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Hi Optimist,

I have wondered the same thing about the Boost - it would be convenient. But the corn syrup, and sugars are not allowed. What we did was a little different we used 100% EN to put her in remission - heard the word "remission" and went into SCD 100%.

We had a fecal calprotectin score come back extremely high after the 6 weeks of EEN. At our appointment a week before she was declared in remission - so confusing - BUT it does take time for Fecal Cal levels to go down.

We are repeating the test in a few weeks. I will be able to see how our first month of 100% SCD has affected the fecal cal test. She is gaining weight on the SCD diet and energy levels are good. I have never seen her with this energy. It improved on EEN and then improved also on SCD so far.

Cooking for it is a full time job! But I am hopeful - so we press on.

So, if it helps to have an example (and everyone is different so just our experience) of how it can go on 100% SCD with a lab measure - stay tuned. I'll post in a few weeks when we have a result.
 
Also, Halloween. She went trick or treating and had a great time. I "bought" her candy from her with a desired book in exchange. She had a great day! But, yes, not the same for a teen. :)
 
Pilgrim, I will be checking every day for news. I hope you and we have something to celebrate in these new labs. Regardless,feeling good is great progress.

I appreciate you sharing your journey. There aren't a lot of SCD success stories on this forum so let's hope we can add some!
 
I am not a fan of SCD (except for maybe in kids where early manipulation of diet does have some evidence behind it,) but I do have a serious question about it. How can garlic powder or herbal tea be illegal because they may have a trace of carb or caking agent, but bourbon which is majority corn, or other whiskey which has a ton of grain (and based on the calories in liquor that grain is still there big time) is fine?

Also, bacteria can feed on monosacharides very easily. So how is honey or anything with glucose in it OK? How can one be sure those are broken down in the upper tract and none of those sugars get to the TI or colon? And also, many dissacharides are also broken down early in the tract, so why are those out? Would it also depend on where one's disease is located.

Please answer with science and evidence, not just to read a book or what it says on some website.
 
Results: Seven children with Crohn disease receiving the SCD and no immunosuppressive medications were retrospectively evaluated. Duration of the dietary therapy ranged from 5 to 30 months, with an average of 14.6 ± 10.8 months. Although the exact time of symptom resolution could not be determined through chart review, all symptoms were notably resolved at a routine clinic visit 3 months after initiating the diet. Each patient's laboratory indices, including serum albumin, C-reactive protein, hematocrit, and stool calprotectin, either normalized or significantly, improved during follow-up clinic visits.

Conclusions: This chart review suggests that the SCD and other low complex carbohydrate diets may be possible therapeutic options for pediatric Crohn disease. Further prospective studies are required to fully assess the safety and efficacy of the SCD, or any other low complex SCDs in pediatric patients with Crohn disease.
Click to expand...

Nutritional Therapy in Pediatric Crohn Disease: The Specific Carbohydrate Diet
Suskind, David L.; Wahbeh, Ghassan; Gregory, Nila; Vendettuoli, Heather; Christie, Dennis

Journal of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition
January 2014
Vol. 58 - Issue 1: p 87–91

From:
http://mobile.journals.lww.com/jpgn...ewer.aspx?year=2014&issue=01000&article=00022


Not a fan
But it does work for some
 
my little penguin said:
Nutritional Therapy in Pediatric Crohn Disease: The Specific Carbohydrate Diet
Suskind, David L.; Wahbeh, Ghassan; Gregory, Nila; Vendettuoli, Heather; Christie, Dennis

Journal of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition
January 2014
Vol. 58 - Issue 1: p 87–91

From:
http://mobile.journals.lww.com/jpgn...ewer.aspx?year=2014&issue=01000&article=00022


Not a fan
But it does work for some
Click to expand...



Like I said, there is some evidence in kids. This however, doesn't answer any of my questions.
 
None of the nutritional therapy mechanisms have been studied close enough to figure out exactly how they work and why.
EEN is a prime example.
It has been proven to work in numerous studies but every time research tries to pin down the "why" -it can't be proven( ie polymeric has as high a success rate as elemental )
 
my little penguin said:
None of the nutritional therapy mechanisms have been studied close enough to figure out exactly how they work and why.
EEN is a prime example.
It has been proven to work in numerous studies but every time research tries to pin down the "why" -it can't be proven( ie polymeric has as high a success rate as elemental )
Click to expand...

That wasn't my question.

Some of what is legal illegal does not follow their own mantra. Examples I gave above. Just looking for a reason for that.
 
baistuff said:
That wasn't my question.

Some of what is legal illegal does not follow their own mantra. Examples I gave above. Just looking for a reason for that.
Click to expand...

How about we ask hugh or KWalker? I know they've done a lot of research on SCD and there has been debate over the items you're questioning.

You asked:
How can garlic powder or herbal tea be illegal because they may have a trace of carb or caking agent, but bourbon which is majority corn, or other whiskey which has a ton of grain (and based on the calories in liquor that grain is still there big time) is fine?

Also, bacteria can feed on monosacharides very easily. So how is honey or anything with glucose in it OK? How can one be sure those are broken down in the upper tract and none of those sugars get to the TI or colon? And also, many dissacharides are also broken down early in the tract, so why are those out? Would it also depend on where one's disease is located.
Click to expand...
 
baistuff said:
That wasn't my question.

Some of what is legal illegal does not follow their own mantra. Examples I gave above. Just looking for a reason for that.
Click to expand...

Where to start?,
I did wonder about the inconsistencies and contradictions for a while, but stopped once i worked out that it is a diet created by a doctor (Sidney Valentine Haas) back in the 1930's(?), based on his observations that carbohydrates caused digestive issues for many people (he worked alot with celiac disease and digestive issues).
He didn't get everything 100% percent but it worked for alot of people.
(For example, eliminating all carbs eliminates all gluten so it cured celiacs but was far more restrictive than they required)

Elaine Gottschall, whose daughter was helped by Dr Haas, popularised the diet with her book ( Breaking the Vicious Cycle: Intestinal Health Through Diet) in the 70's.
By all accounts she was a bit of a battleaxe (i mean that in a good way, strong and determined, not to be crossed) and laid down the law, not allowing any changes and making determinations on what else is legal and illegal.
She went back to school (at 47) and received a Masters degree in biochemistry and continued on with graduate studies in nutrition.

It is a trademarked system and it is not perfect,
It eliminates many things and there is no way to tell which eliminations were required for each individual and which ones were not necessary.

apparently "Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride has taken SCD and evolved it further to create a full protocol for healing digestive disorders and subsequent issues." and packaged it as the GAPS diet, which i think has some improvements.

I view it (SCD) as a good starting point since there is so much information available but would suggest that people move to a low to medium carb paleo diet ('Perfect Health Diet'-ish) if they can reintroduce safe paleo carbs (tubers and maybe white rice) without any issues.

I'm grateful to the SCD diet because it lead me to paleo and my belief is that that's why it works
We eat shit processed crap, too many carbs of poor quality, and inflammatory seed oils and it messes with out gut bacteria, our immune system and our health in general.

I don't even think that the nitty-gritty nit picking details matter, I've talked to people who are 100% SCD and eat shitloads of SCD muffins and just plain crap that happens to be SCD legal but isn't a balanced diet.
Put you effort into REAL FOOD (and in my world grains and seed oils ain't real food).

I thought this was a great post about diets and explains why i'm not as zealous as i used to be......
Raw Vegan, Blood Type O, Paleo, Low Carb High Fat Diets – what do they have in common?
http://paleozonenutrition.com/2012/...d-the-paleo-diet-what-do-they-have-in-common/
 
Appreciate the biography and the perspective, but it still doesn't answer the question. I have my own theories but they would not be too popular in this thread so I'll leave it at that.
 
Your theories on the diet or on the particular inclusions you are wondering about? I think you should share your insight. Personally, this isn't a religion for me, so I'm open to hearing critique of the diet.

After reading the percentages of success and percentages of serious adverse and adverse affects with Remi, Humira, MTX, and AZA (we tried that one and were a statistic for serious adverse affect) on the pediatric population, and having a child that is below the age on which the meds have been reported on, we thought it might be wise to try a diet which is being studied - while monitoring her with labs, etc, to check on the inflammation.

Not defensively written at all, just explaining the lack of a perfect option.
 
Hi Again Optimistic and others,

On Monday (day 1) , we started my Son on SCD Legal (homemade) EEN. That's right, pureed chicken soup, beef broth, grape juice grape juice gellatin, electrolyte water only. On day 1, he had a couple eggs mixed in, but based on the "the SCD guys" Flare control program, we eliminated eggs ( we had already eliminated dairy). I added SCD legal digestive enzymes on Day 2. On day 3 he reports he had "normal formed stools (twice). Today, Day three AM he reports another normal stool. Woo-hoo!

Today, I will add in apple sauce and some coconut oil. Tomorrow we will try a beef soup. Now for my dilemma...how long to continue as EEN (puree)? Wait for the inflamatory markers to come down?

He is still on pred. His doctor has been pushing to change therapies to get off pred (it's been about 2 mons.) (EEN was one of his suggestions to get off Pred, in lieu of Remicadee.) Today, I will inquire if the doc's ready to start taper now, or what the "indicator" is for tapering. Next we we go for more labs.

BTW, I don't think our Doc does fecal calprotectin test. What is it and should I request it? We mostly talk about CRP and ESR, although he runs many other tests (neutrophils, etc). If there's a reference plance for me to do the research to understand on these tests in relation to crohn's, Please send a link. Thanks.

Girlscout,
mom to 14yo boy
crohns since 10 yrs
Pred, 6mp
digestive enzymes, probiotics, multivit, omega 3, turmeric
 
A couple of disclaimers...

1) I am not a pediatrician. Kids are not little adults or vice versa. MANY conditions are approached differently in adults vs kids, so what I say does NOT apply to children. There may be something to SCD in kids based on some evidence and some anecdotal data- the adult and pediatric guts are completely different ecosystems and transit systems. For those that want to try diet manipulation, it is way to simplistic and scientifcally naive to do the same in an adult as in a child.


2) I fully believe diet impacts many diseases including and especially IBD, and needs to be part of any treatment program.



I find a huge inconsistency with SCD, that the fact that something like a spice may have an anticaking agent with a trace of a carb so it's completely out, versus bourbon and scotch which are full of calories directly from corn/grain.

I have asked questions on this board, elsewhere and have never gotten anything close to a reasonable answer. My theory is that (again, we are limiting this discussion to 18 years old +) this is a disease which presents mostly in early adulthood during college and early working yeas. In my own practice, having nothing to do with IBD, you can tell young adults to exercise, cut out gluten, smoking, etc... The one sure way to turn away a college, grad school, entry level job starter is to tell them they cannot drink. I'm not talking fall down drunks here or weekend drinkers. I'm simply talking about people who go to parties, family events, watching the Jets on Sunday with some friends, happy hours, or other professional conferences and meetings.

I think the SCD folks know this, and knew that the easiest way for the book to be tossed into the garbage would be to tell 18-35 year olds (and this is the group most likely to try this diet) they must avoid alcohol. The originator of SCD wrote the book in the treatment of a 5 year old- obviously alcohol was not even an issue.

I also find it baffling that a diet soda is SOMETIMES ok, but not others. What happened to 100% fanatical or it fails? Artifical sweeters have been found to be immunogenic, irritating to the gut, but once in a while they are OK? Also what difference does it make if coffee is weak or strong? define the moment when coffee becomes strong vs. weak? Also, the issue with sugars, as mentioned in prevous posts. So many inconsistencies.

My suggestion. Keep a food diary. Find what agrees, what doesn't agree. Fanaticism is the last thing and IBDer needs. We are already wound up so tight when it comes to food, GI issues. I think the psychologic effects of the diet only exacerbate this.

End of rant.
 
Hello my son is 15 and has been on the SCD for almost 3 years. He has made some modifications to allow the freedom to go out with his friends.
Chick fil la, rice products, potatoes chips(plain)
He has reduced his stools, continues to gain healthy weight, has finally made it to 6 ft.,
But the doctor says his calprotectin test is showing inflammation. (But he feels fine) *reports tired, sad, couple times a month a little pain in stomach*
We do not want to put him on medicine at such a young age so I have seen a couple time people using LDN along with the SCD.
What is your thoughts and options?
Thanks for your help:)
Medicine that was to put him on is Methotrexate
 
The thing is SCD may have worked but if the fecal cal is increased he may be flaring even without outwards signs long term simmering infllammation or even shorter regular inflammation can cause a lot of damage you can't see. Once there is damage that is harder to fix.
I understand your fears.
We have a parents group
I know a few were on LDN
Kimmidwife jmrogers4
Farmwife
They can give you a few tips .

Fwiw my kiddo started on remicade at age 8.
And now is on humira plus MTX at age 10.
At least for my kiddo diet was never enough wish it was.
We tried all of them .

Good luck
Parents group
http://www.crohnsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=49
 
Yes I understand the not wanting to put young kids on the meds.:rosette2:
We tried it ALL, diet, supplements, EEN, LDN
and it still wasn't enough to give her a good quality of life.
Now onto Remicade and its amazing.
I am glad we did do the LDN. She had no side effect from it. It just didn't work.:frown:

Just keep up with the docs, testing and monitoring his health.
Their are so many people on this forum that will sadly tell you how this disease snuck up and got them.
 
mvond5 said:
Hello my son is 15 and has been on the SCD for almost 3 years. He has made some modifications to allow the freedom to go out with his friends.
Chick fil la, rice products, potatoes chips(plain)
He has reduced his stools, continues to gain healthy weight, has finally made it to 6 ft.,
But the doctor says his calprotectin test is showing inflammation. (But he feels fine) *reports tired, sad, couple times a month a little pain in stomach*
We do not want to put him on medicine at such a young age so I have seen a couple time people using LDN along with the SCD.
What is your thoughts and options?
Thanks for your help:)
Medicine that was to put him on is Methotrexate
Click to expand...

If you are hesitant to start meds with him, then I would watch for other signs of inflammation, while pulling back to a strict adherance to the diet. It sounds like there are a lot of good signs there - like the stools and weight gain. Also, I have noticed with my own child, that if she is coming down with a cold or flu, she'll go into a mini-flare - so maybe watch and see if there is something else going on - it is that time of year when we all get sick.

I have the same kind of thoughts about the meds. I am researching our options just in case - but at the same time I see a kid who is more active and happier than she ever was. I wonder if I should mess with a good thing.

I'm not sure about LDN. If you go into the med support forum maybe someone there will be able to give you some advice from experience. I thought I'd encourage you with the diet since we are here in the SCD etc..support group - where people are trying very hard to work with a diet.

I hope you keep posting and let us know what happens. We're also dealing with a wonky fecal calpro. I think that I mishandled the sample with improper storage. We are repeating the test and I am going to be careful to refrigerate. Not sure how much of a difference it will make - but hopeful.

Sorry that was so long. What does your son want to do? I have teenage boys too (not IBD) they are not the easiest to talk to. :cool:
 
We had good luck with LDN for a little while. The thing about it is if it's going to work it takes a long time to get there and for us an infection/antibiotics brought on a flare that would just could not get him out of. My son was on it for about 18 months, took 8 months to get to remission we were there for about 5 months before C-diff and spent another 6 months trying to get him out of a flare. He did not gain weight while on it and had virtually no appetite (maybe a side effect) and only grew about an inch. By comparison he has gained about 27 pounds and grown nearly 5 inches since starting remicade in January.
We started SCD while on LDN, still took us 8 months to get to total remission. But he felt great and who knows what would have happened or how long remission would have lasted without Cdiff throwing him off.
One of the forums long time LDN users has just had to recently switch medications as well as the LDN was no longer working or like us something happened which caused a flare and the LDN was no longer enough to pull him out.
Like farmwife I'm glad we tried it but didn't realize how good he could be/feel until we found what really worked for him. Also thought that maybe there was issues do to his being a teenage boy and hormones etc played into its efficiancy.
But as MLP said be careful of simmering inflammation. This was an issue for us and the blood labs were all in normal range but fecal calprotectin showed inflammation which was confirmed with MRE.
One other thing in regards to LDN it does pass the blood/brain barrier and my son would do this weird head/neck roll kind of tick on it we called it the bobble head, (enough so other people noticed and commented asking if he had something wrong with his neck, went to massage therapist, DO thinking it was an injury but it persisted) it showed up after he had been on LDN for a while and continued the time he was on LDN. It has also gone away now since he has been off it. Coincidence? Possibly/Probably but in the interest of full disclosure since not a lot of testing has been done in regards to LDN especially in the pediatric population I feel I should mention it.
 
baistuff said:
I find a huge inconsistency with SCD, that the fact that something like a spice may have an anticaking agent with a trace of a carb so it's completely out, versus bourbon and scotch which are full of calories directly from corn/grain. .
Click to expand...

I prefer to think of them as small inconsistencies on the fringe of a hugely beneficial but still flawed diet.
(Glass half full of half empty?)

Can i ask if these issues have been enough to stop you from trying the diet?
 
hugh said:
I prefer to think of them as small inconsistencies on the fringe of a hugely beneficial but still flawed diet.
(Glass half full of half empty?)


In a treatment modality that warns that anything but "fanatical dedication" is destined to fail, I think they have the responsibility then to iron out ANY inconsistency.


Can i ask if these issues have been enough to stop you from trying the diet?
Click to expand...

The main reason I don't do the diet is that I'm not that bad off since being in a trial for FMT. Labs are all within normal limits and my last scope a couple of months back looked fine. I do have some mild symptoms (may be more IBS than IBD now) and some foods I still need to stay away from, but what variables would I be modifying, and how would I track success? If anything, since I would consider my FMT successful- at least for now, my thought would be that starving bacteria would cause the transplanted guys to be killed as well, and that's the LAST thing I would want.

FMT is not a cure by any means, and no doubt I will flare again, but for now, I don't think it's necessary. In terms of diet, I think it's also way too simplistic to think in terms of just carbs and bacteria. Resistant starches actually improve colonic butyrate, so things like potatoes should be fine. Gluten is an issue for many, not really because of bacteria, but because in many it's immunogenic. Even those with conditions other than IBD and no problems with gut flora do better off gluten because in some people gluten triggers immune reactions. Why? who knows.

I've done my own food diaries for days at a time (I've been at this about 11 years now.) Rice, potatoes never bother me, in fact- they are my go to foods when things have gotten rough. For a book to declare them "illegal" without controlled studies or looking at my scope or biopsies is ridiculous.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Inflammation in the TI is not the same at all as inflammation in the rectum. stenosing and fistulizing disease is not the same as nonspecific inflammation. Kids are not adults. Other medical conditions, medications, environment etc... all play a role in this disease. To say "cut out all complex carbs and all will be well" is simplistic, scientifically unproven, and in some potentially dangerous. It's also potentially socially isolating in a condition that already does that. It can create a fear of food in a disease that already has apprehension of food. Don't get me wrong, diet is a HUGE part of IBD management. But at this point the best we can all do is trial and error.

Show me labs, scopes, biopsies of those on the diet alone, diet and meds, meds alone, and let's start putting real data together.
 
Unfortunately, we have to drop the SCD for now. It seems like anytime we introduce any food at all, no matter how healthful and well planned, she goes into a flare. This is a definite pattern for her. So, we are back to EEN now and thinking through our options.

I guess she is one of the 25%. It is very disappointing as we had high hopes. She is very, very young though and I think that VEO-IBD is a different animal. Not sure.

It has been very beneficial for the rest of the family though and even though I do not have IBD, I am going to keep using it for other reasons for myself and keep elements for the other kids. It has been great learning a new way to eat.

I wont have a fecal calpro to post from just the diet as we are on EEN now.
 
Hi Pilgrim, My son (14 YO) is still doing well on a pureed SCD diet, although really bored with the same thing every day. Most everything is pureed to the point of being drinkable except applesauce which is more like baby food consistency (stage1). He reports that his BMs continue to get less frequent. Sounds like he is coming from a better place than your daughter, though. I agree that SCD may just not work for everyone at every place in their journey. Right now I am wondering if it would be safe to supplement with something like Ensure or Boost, but I am afraid the dairy with throw him off. He is cows milk sensitve. Know anything that's palatable that is non dairy?

I hope you find a way to improve your daughters situation! Best wishes. It is so hard to watch our children suffer.

Mom to 14yo, CD, 6mp, pred, SCD last 6 weeks pureed. Before that he was SCD for 2 years and went off of a year and flared again. Dx 2010
 
I'm coming out of a super restrictive paleo/scd diet, I'm still grain free, but I'm able now to tolerate yogurt / cheese, cooked green leafy vegetables. I'm worried about ever introducing raw vegetables. before I was diagnosed I ate hearty tahini kale salads and hummus all the time, I'd be so nervous now to eat raw vegetables or beans. won't raw vegetables and beans be just as bloating and cramp causing as grains? maybe I'm just traumatized from getting sick, I remember a time where I couldn't even eat applesauce. does anybody have positive experiences with raw greens and beans?
 
I'm on humira and asacol easing off of prednisone, down to 15mg. I'm having virtually no episodes doing really well, hopefully in remission soon. I feel like I'm in remission, just waiting for a doctor to confirm that.
 
Baistuff,

I think it's important to remember, when approaching these dietary plans, that everyone's body is different. That being said - the SCD provides a rudimentary "framework" on which each dieter must build and extrapolate upon to achieve his or her own harmony.

For example: some people on the diet can eat dairy products without any ramifications whatsoever. Cheese and yogurt have no effect upon these individuals, while others suffer due to the complex Casein protein that resides within cow's milk.

You asked specifically why honey and other products are allowed, and how quickly these products are absorbed. I believe that the diet leaves out one key piece - eating MUST be done in moderation. For the SCD'er who consistently gorges themselves on honey, sugar (from fruit), almonds, nuts, peanut butter, and other, difficult to digest foods, it's quite likely that healing will be delayed, due to the fact that, at the beginning of the diet, the intestinal tract is heavily damaged and can't properly digest foods (hence the intro diet).

Throughout my experience on the plan - I've found that small, snack size meals are paramount in my personal success - I never eat "three square meals" a day anymore - in fact, I generally eat about 1/3 of what a normal portion would be 5 - 6 times a day.

Remember: food is an equation. Your body requires calories to function. Your requirements are determined by your energy expenditure, your metabolism, and your own personal needs. A lot of Americans eat to the point where they are stuffed - this is a huge no no on the SCD (from personal experience): even if you are consuming healthy, easy to digest sugars, an excess of these at one time will still allow bacteria to feed on something (they can use monosaccarides just as easy as us!).

Hope this helps. I know it is frustrating to not have specific answers, but a lot of the discussion behind this diet is conjecture anyways, thanks to our wonderful, greed driven pharmaceutical industry that only wants to fund studies on products that will generate revenue.

Alex
 
VilliVagabond said:
Baistuff,

I think it's important to remember, when approaching these dietary plans, that everyone's body is different. That being said - the SCD provides a rudimentary "framework" on which each dieter must build and extrapolate upon to achieve his or her own harmony.

For example: some people on the diet can eat dairy products without any ramifications whatsoever. Cheese and yogurt have no effect upon these individuals, while others suffer due to the complex Casein protein that resides within cow's milk.

You asked specifically why honey and other products are allowed, and how quickly these products are absorbed. I believe that the diet leaves out one key piece - eating MUST be done in moderation. For the SCD'er who consistently gorges themselves on honey, sugar (from fruit), almonds, nuts, peanut butter, and other, difficult to digest foods, it's quite likely that healing will be delayed, due to the fact that, at the beginning of the diet, the intestinal tract is heavily damaged and can't properly digest foods (hence the intro diet).

Throughout my experience on the plan - I've found that small, snack size meals are paramount in my personal success - I never eat "three square meals" a day anymore - in fact, I generally eat about 1/3 of what a normal portion would be 5 - 6 times a day.

Remember: food is an equation. Your body requires calories to function. Your requirements are determined by your energy expenditure, your metabolism, and your own personal needs. A lot of Americans eat to the point where they are stuffed - this is a huge no no on the SCD (from personal experience): even if you are consuming healthy, easy to digest sugars, an excess of these at one time will still allow bacteria to feed on something (they can use monosaccarides just as easy as us!).

Hope this helps. I know it is frustrating to not have specific answers, but a lot of the discussion behind this diet is conjecture anyways, thanks to our wonderful, greed driven pharmaceutical industry that only wants to fund studies on products that will generate revenue.

Alex
Click to expand...




You were doing great until your last paragraph. I know we are just about at the Kennedy anniversary, but this is not a great place for conspiracy theories.

And yeah, you know what? Drug companies, just like your dry cleaner, pizza shop, macy's, your mechanic, attorney and doctor all want to make money. Those evil people wanting to make money off consumers. What are they going to think of next? Charging 200 dollars a pop to see the Giants throw 5 interceptions?

However, until you bring proof of someone sabatoging progress in the fight of disease, please stay away from all this conspiracy crap. It wasn't long ago that life expectancy was barely past 50 in the US. Now it's pushing 80. We have drugs to prevent cholesterol build up, 9 different mechanisms to lower blood pressure, blood sugar, various meds to control inflammatory conditions, incredible devices like pacemakers, LVADs, we can transplant organs and all of this is brought to you by drug companies. Want to protest drug companies? They are all evil? SCD solves all? Stop all your meds and go fanatic SCD and tell me how you are doing in 6 months.

As far as SCD, your argument about portion size certainly is plausible. My counter to that is that if it is indeed portion related, then certain amount of complex carbs should be able to be broken down early in digestion as well and (assuming no gastric, duodenal or jejunal disease) should not cause problems. Of course defining that amount becomes very tricky. The other issue is that IBD is simply more than bacteria. We can manipulate bacteria very well. If all it was about was killing bacteria, well the bad guys would be gone in a few weeks, months at most. Replace the good guys, and in theory within a few months you should be able to quit the diet and be "cured." But of course it doesn't work that way. There is nothing addressing the immune response nor the host defect.

Which I way a revert back to my original statement. There is no question diet not only interacts with gut bacteria but also the immune system. But what that interaction is can vary depending on age, location of disease, duration of disease, severity of disease, maybe even gender. There is no one size fits all answer to any other this. Get a journal, keep a close tally of symptoms, and to be even more scientific get labs, and even better, some imaging or a scope after diet manipulation. See what works and what doesn't.

Personally, I can't go near a drop of milk, but rice and potatoes are lifesavers. And I've got my last scope to prove it.
 
I am not following any of these but I have a question about Whey Protein Isolate. Do any of you use this as a daily dietary supplement ? Spouts Grocery Store sells it in those bins, you can buy a little or a lot. I went to a Nutrionist/ Dietician in May. I told her all about my health issues, medications, etc. She gave me some goals, recommendations and some ingredient / ideas for smoothies. The Smoothies would contain fruit, vegetable, dairy, protein, flavoring. I have tried Whey Protein Isolate Powder a few times and also ground up flaxseed in my smoothies. I have Ulcerative Colitis, will this powder hurt me or help me ? I get so much conflicting information from the Internet about the powder. Thanks for your help.
 
Cit said:
We are what we eat.
If you eat sick/diseased animals you will be sick/diseased
If you eat healthy animals you will be healthy
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So following this logic you should eat live animals as oppose to dead ones??
 
Is it humane to rob an animal of its life just so we can have steak or turkey for dinner, when we have so many other options for dinner that don't involve taking a life ?

What exactly constitutes " humane slaughtering " ?

The question at hand is not whether to inhumanely or humanely slaughter meat.....the question is whether it's humane to take life or not.
 
Since I am not using the SCD or Paleo or GAPS "diet", I will move on to another group.

I cannot eat eggs, most vegetables, most fruits, or nuts because they make me have diarrhea. So I guess Paleo is not for me.

The SCD is out for me too because I cannot eat : eggs, bacon, pork, almost every fruit, almost every vegetable, and nuts.

As far as the GAPS "diet" that is out for me too. I have no idea where I would buy duck, goose, pheasant, pigeon or quail and they don't seem appealing to eat. Fermented vegetables and sauerkraut juice don't sound too refreshing to drink. And I am confused, you can have coffee, gin, scotch, vodka and wine ? I have acid reflux and I cannot drink alcohol.

:bigwave:
 
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Hey all,

I am not doing SCD/Paleo/Perfect health diet, but I am working with an acupuncturist. My diet right now consists of cooked meats and veggies (mostly leafy greens) - no butter or oil. I mostly make soup just because it's easiest to digest, and I drink herbs 2x a day. I was doing so well, my energy is up, and my bowels are more steady. I was doing fairly well for about 2 months, but today I fell off the wagon big time. I am trying to think of why it happened, but a lot of things have been stressing me out lately (new to a job, trying to figure out what to do with my life, etc), but I mostly feel as though I struggled today because I am doing this alone. I feel horrible about it (emotionally, but I am sure I will feel horrible physically tomorrow). I am reminding myself that it will get better, and I will feel better in the long run.
 
Thank you! I did feel bad the next day, and I am just thankful it wasn't painful enough to stop me from working. And I don't think it was really worth it taste-wise; it was more of an emotional impulse.
 
hugh said:
Where to start?,
I did wonder about the inconsistencies and contradictions for a while, but stopped once i worked out that it is a diet created by a doctor (Sidney Valentine Haas) back in the 1930's(?), based on his observations that carbohydrates caused digestive issues for many people (he worked alot with celiac disease and digestive issues).
He didn't get everything 100% percent but it worked for alot of people.
(For example, eliminating all carbs eliminates all gluten so it cured celiacs but was far more restrictive than they required)

Elaine Gottschall, whose daughter was helped by Dr Haas, popularised the diet with her book ( Breaking the Vicious Cycle: Intestinal Health Through Diet) in the 70's.
By all accounts she was a bit of a battleaxe (i mean that in a good way, strong and determined, not to be crossed) and laid down the law, not allowing any changes and making determinations on what else is legal and illegal.
She went back to school (at 47) and received a Masters degree in biochemistry and continued on with graduate studies in nutrition.

It is a trademarked system and it is not perfect,
It eliminates many things and there is no way to tell which eliminations were required for each individual and which ones were not necessary.

apparently "Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride has taken SCD and evolved it further to create a full protocol for healing digestive disorders and subsequent issues." and packaged it as the GAPS diet, which i think has some improvements.

I view it (SCD) as a good starting point since there is so much information available but would suggest that people move to a low to medium carb paleo diet ('Perfect Health Diet'-ish) if they can reintroduce safe paleo carbs (tubers and maybe white rice) without any issues.

I'm grateful to the SCD diet because it lead me to paleo and my belief is that that's why it works
We eat shit processed crap, too many carbs of poor quality, and inflammatory seed oils and it messes with out gut bacteria, our immune system and our health in general.

I don't even think that the nitty-gritty nit picking details matter, I've talked to people who are 100% SCD and eat shitloads of SCD muffins and just plain crap that happens to be SCD legal but isn't a balanced diet.
Put you effort into REAL FOOD (and in my world grains and seed oils ain't real food).

I thought this was a great post about diets and explains why i'm not as zealous as i used to be......
Raw Vegan, Blood Type O, Paleo, Low Carb High Fat Diets – what do they have in common?
http://paleozonenutrition.com/2012/...d-the-paleo-diet-what-do-they-have-in-common/
Click to expand...

Apologies for bringing up an older post that I've just now caught up with, but if you view these diets as quite imprecise and needing to be adjusted for each individual, doesn't this contradict the emphasis on sticking to them 100%? I've read many posts here where it's stated that people can't expect a diet to work if they cheat at all, and SCD, paleo, etc. seem to be characterised by extreme preciseness.
 
baistuff said:
However, until you bring proof of someone sabatoging progress in the fight of disease, please stay away from all this conspiracy crap.
Click to expand...
"Between 2004 and 2010, major drug companies paid out $7 billion in fines, penalties and lawsuits for fraudulently marketing their drugs, making misleading claims about the drugs safety and hiding or altering studies which indicated evidence of harm. The threat of massive payouts does not appear to offer much deterrent."

baistuff said:
How can garlic powder or herbal tea be illegal because they may have a trace of carb or caking agent, but bourbon which is majority corn, or other whiskey which has a ton of grain (and based on the calories in liquor that grain is still there big time) is fine?
Click to expand...

the calories in distilled spirits are NOT carbohydrates, they are alcohol.
Different spirits may have flavours and sugars added.

baistuff said:
Also, bacteria can feed on monosacharides very easily. So how is honey or anything with glucose in it OK? How can one be sure those are broken down in the upper tract and none of those sugars get to the TI or colon? And also, many dissacharides are also broken down early in the tract, so why are those out? Would it also depend on where one's disease is located.

Please answer with science and evidence, not just to read a book or what it says on some website.
Click to expand...

Your having a laugh, aren't you,
Go do an advanced degree in digestive disorders if you want to understand everything.(but even then you will still be scratching the surface

If, for whatever reason, more carbohydrates enter the small intestine than can be absorbed there then those that are not absorbed will pass on to the colon to feed bacteria.
This is pretty simple to understand.

There are many reasons that carbs might not be absorbed, from absence of the correct enzyme (lactase to digest lactose), excess mucus preventing enzymes in brush border reaching carbohydrates, intestinal damage, just too many carbs, food toxicity, and a thousand others.
But one of the main reasons is the complexity of the carb (according to SCD and sounds sort of reasonable to me)

Then there are infinite combinations and permutations of interactions between differing ratios of hundreds of species of bacteria, genes, foods (and food-like-products, chemicals, fungus, protozoa, paracites,pesticides) and hosts in varying states of health.

Excluding the hard to digest carbs and limiting the easy to digest carbs greatly reduces the amount of food that reaches bacteria in the colon. This decreases the amount of bacteria and favours the bacteria that do not eat sugar.
This is pretty easy to understand.
The intricacies of the relationship between hundreds of species in a state of balance or imbalance and their effects on the host immune system?
That is something we are a long way from understanding.
 
hugh said:
"Between 2004 and 2010, major drug companies paid out $7 billion in fines, penalties and lawsuits for fraudulently marketing their drugs, making misleading claims about the drugs safety and hiding or altering studies which indicated evidence of harm. The threat of massive payouts does not appear to offer much deterrent."



the calories in distilled spirits are NOT carbohydrates, they are alcohol.
Different spirits may have flavours and sugars added.



Your having a laugh, aren't you,
Go do an advanced degree in digestive disorders if you want to understand everything.(but even then you will still be scratching the surface

If, for whatever reason, more carbohydrates enter the small intestine than can be absorbed there then those that are not absorbed will pass on to the colon to feed bacteria.
This is pretty simple to understand.

There are many reasons that carbs might not be absorbed, from absence of the correct enzyme (lactase to digest lactose), excess mucus preventing enzymes in brush border reaching carbohydrates, intestinal damage, just too many carbs, food toxicity, and a thousand others.
But one of the main reasons is the complexity of the carb (according to SCD and sounds sort of reasonable to me)

Then there are infinite combinations and permutations of interactions between differing ratios of hundreds of species of bacteria, genes, foods (and food-like-products, chemicals, fungus, protozoa, paracites,pesticides) and hosts in varying states of health.

Excluding the hard to digest carbs and limiting the easy to digest carbs greatly reduces the amount of food that reaches bacteria in the colon. This decreases the amount of bacteria and favours the bacteria that do not eat sugar.
This is pretty easy to understand.
The intricacies of the relationship between hundreds of species in a state of balance or imbalance and their effects on the host immune system?
That is something we are a long way from understanding.
Click to expand...




Not sure why/where the hostility is coming from. These are honest and frankly I think important questions. Seems to me on this board if one is skeptical about establishment s/he is hailed as wonderful. if I am skeptical about something out of the box and unproven I am horrible. Sure there are bad apples in pharma. Sure they have kicked the ball onto the green before. Yes, that sort of thing is horrible. But at least (here in the US) we have the FDA, and other outlets which regulate, oversee and try to hold companies accountable. Pharma also gives billions to charaties worldwide, and in the US any patient can all any drug company any time and work out reduced payments, rebates, and other ways to offset costs when insurance drops the ball. Pharma has saved many lives including many on this board. I have done a lot of reading online on SCD and I can't go 5 minutes without being told to buy a book. I'm sure it has helped many, but it is fair, responsible and downright our obligation to question it. I actually get more skeptical when folks bristle in defensiveness, like god forbid we should actually question something that seems inconsistent about the diet.

Now, back to the important issue at hand. I see your points about the different carbs, but many dissachs. are broken down in the duodenum. If seems logical that if I have no upper tract disease and am careful with portion size not to overburden the carb load (I admit that can be difficult to ascertain,) I should have no problem tolerating these foods in the right portions.

My issue with it at the end of the day is that blanket statements, 100% rigidity, and terms like "illegal" (implying almost criminal if done) for a disease with countless nuances within phenotypes is just a simplistic apporach. Would we want our docs to employ a similar 100% rigid approach with any of our treatments otherwise?

Just to clarify, I completely 100% agree that diet is absolutely and important part of the management of CD. Evidence is mounting about gluten and lactose having immunogenic properties, but caking agents in garlic powder? I'd like to see evidence. The luminal contents, texture, flora, pH, and motility are so different say in the TI vs the sigmoid. To say that one diet, or one treatment will be successful for different disease locations, severity, gender, age is in MHO shortsighted.

I am thankful for SCD because even though many of its illegals have been lifesavers for me, it has brought diet into the equation and discussion. I just hope those who follow it, whether successfully or not, are open to opinions which may differ from their own.

Management of CD should not be ideology based, but rather evidence based.
 
UnXmas said:
Apologies for bringing up an older post that I've just now caught up with, but if you view these diets as quite imprecise and needing to be adjusted for each individual, doesn't this contradict the emphasis on sticking to them 100%? I've read many posts here where it's stated that people can't expect a diet to work if they cheat at all, and SCD, paleo, etc. seem to be characterised by extreme preciseness.
Click to expand...
I view SCD as “imprecise and needing to be adjusted” but SCD is not my diet and they don't care what I think. My view is not the SCD diet and while I generally support the concept that starting with 100% Scd and then seeing if you need to change it, I would not want people to confuse my thoughts about diet with 'The SCD diet”tm
They have a 'system' that works for many and are trying to keep it whole and consistent (as far as they see it).
It would be unworkable to have a 'partial compliance' SCD, it only takes a second of thought to see that they could not offer that as a serious option (“Dear SCD – your diet is not working and I am doing all the bits of it that I want to. Please tell me why this is not enough”)
I believe that 100% adherence to some parts are required but not others but they are my opinions and are only my opinions.
Paleo is only as rigid as you want it to be, plenty of factions, take your pick, paleo templates, perfect health diet, primal, books of 'paleo treats', 80/20 rules, whatever works for you, but a general agreement that cutting back to a pure paleo (meat and veg) and then reintroducing things to see if they are tolerated.
Ancestral is probably a less loaded word

baistuff said:
Sure there are bad apples in pharma. Sure they have kicked the ball onto the green before. Yes, that sort of thing is horrible. But at least (here in the US) we have the FDA, and other outlets which regulate, oversee and try to hold companies accountable.
Click to expand...
“kicked the ball onto the green”, “bad apples”
ohh how jolly, what mischievous scallywags.......

$2.2 billion in criminal and civil fines for improperly promoted the antipsychotic drug Risperdal and the guy who was vice president for sales and marketing at the time gets promoted to chief executive of Johnson & Johnson [1]. Why? - because the fines are a small percentage of the profit and it is worth it to do the crime, pay the fine and get promoted for making buckets of cash..

“Children as young as 18 months are now receiving [atypical antipsychotic medications], despite the fact that the diseases they're designed to treat rarely develop before adolescence.”
“Aggressive, and oftentimes illegal, marketing by drug companies is believed to be a major contributing factor to skyrocketing misuse of antipsychotic drugs in children.”[2]

This isn't a few bad apples, this is profit and greed above all else.
Don't try to trivialise criminal and immoral behaviour

baistuff said:
I have done a lot of reading online on SCD and I can't go 5 minutes without being told to buy a book.
Click to expand...
Goodness me? A book? About the diet? On a website promoting the diet?
How unethical, You should take the matter up with an office of fair trading.
But seriously, after years of talking to people about SCD and low carb diets I have found the most common failing is not the diet but the inability of the dieters to either understand or follow the diet.
Reading the book would probably increase their success rate.

baistuff said:
I'm sure it has helped many, but it is fair, responsible and downright our obligation to question it.
Click to expand...
I salute your sense of civic duty, but this “mountain out of molehill technique” is hardly appropriate.
The alcohol issue we have settled, yes? (I don't think drinking is a good idea but alcohol is not a carbohydrate)
baistuff said:
Also, bacteria can feed on monosacharides very easily. So how is honey or anything with glucose in it OK? How can one be sure those are broken down in the upper tract and none of those sugars get to the TI or colon? And also, many dissacharides are also broken down early in the tract, so why are those out? Would it also depend on where one's disease is located.
Click to expand...
Eliminating sugar and complex carbs will reduce the total sugar enormously. Honey (being 95% monosaccarides) and glucose do not need “breaking down”.
One of the recommendations for those who do not find SCD working is to reduse or eliminate honey

baistuff said:
I have asked questions on this board, elsewhere and have never gotten anything close to a reasonable answer.
Click to expand...
Are those answers reasonable?

baistuff said:
I actually get more skeptical when folks bristle in defensiveness, like god forbid we should actually question something that seems inconsistent about the diet.
Click to expand...
I am not bristling, certainly not with defensiveness. I have an overly active sarcasm gland and low tolerance for inanity, Medication is proving ineffective.......
I don't eat SCD, I think it is flawed, I eat a medium carb paleo(ish) diet.
I did start off with SCD but found other exclusions were required, and not all SCD exclusions were necessary.
I would not have worked this out had I not followed the diet accurately

baistuff said:
Now, back to the important issue at hand. I see your points about the different carbs, but many dissachs. are broken down in the duodenum. If seems logical that if I have no upper tract disease and am careful with portion size not to overburden the carb load (I admit that can be difficult to ascertain,) I should have no problem tolerating these foods in the right portions.
Click to expand...
One wonders how well a book that recommended “careful with portion size not to overburden the carb load” would be followed

baistuff said:
My issue with it at the end of the day is that blanket statements, 100% rigidity, and terms like "illegal" (implying almost criminal if done) for a disease with countless nuances within phenotypes is just a simplistic approach.
Click to expand...

A simplistic approach? Probably should have published 1000 different variations of the book and devise a testing procedure to determine who gets which copy?
But seriously,
They have a formula, it works for many, Good on them.
If the book said “maybe don't eat those, you decide” what use would it be?

Strict adherence may not be necessary for everyone but one has no way of knowing if ones own situation will respond adequately to some of the diet measures, and which of the measures one can afford to ignore.
This is pretty obvious?

baistuff said:
Would we want our docs to employ a similar 100% rigid approach with any of our treatments otherwise?
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention that,
I just had my cholesterol tested, Doc sat me down and gave me the serious 'We have to do something about these numbers” talk. Gave me three months or else she would have to address my statin deficiency.[3]
Talk about 100% rigidity, look at the top two numbers and don't have any comprehension of what they mean .......

baistuff said:
Just to clarify, I completely 100% agree that diet is absolutely and important part of the management of CD..........To say that one diet, or one treatment will be successful for different disease locations, severity, gender, age is in MHO shortsighted.
I am thankful for SCD because even though many of its illegals have been lifesavers for me, it has brought diet into the equation and discussion. I just hope those who follow it, whether successfully or not, are open to opinions which may differ from their own.
Management of CD should not be ideology based, but rather evidence based.
Click to expand...
Glad you found it some help

baistuff said:
.......revert back to my original statement. There is no question diet not only interacts with gut bacteria but also the immune system. But what that interaction is can vary depending on age, location of disease, duration of disease, severity of disease, maybe even gender. There is no one size fits all answer to any other this. Get a journal, keep a close tally of symptoms, and to be even more scientific get labs, and even better, some imaging or a scope after diet manipulation. See what works and what doesn't.
Click to expand...

There is much to support severely restrictive diets that reintroduce foods after an exclusion period.
Since it is impossible to know what foods are contributing to or causing problems and which are only problematic due to the effects of other factors Therefore a strict elimination that allows the intestine time to heal is a effective way to begin and will greatly help to determine what should be eaten.
Random trial and error would be only useful in ascertaining immediate or short term reactions
SCD is a guideline, sorry you don't approve of their vocabulary......

[1] “recklessly put at risk the health of some of the most vulnerable members of our society — including young children, the elderly and the disabled.” “
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/b...e-risperdal-improper-marketing-case.html?_r=0
[2] http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...gn=20141220Z3&et_cid=DM62500&et_rid=770644932
[3] My numbers put me in the lowest risk category imaginable High HDL, Low triglicerides, LDL calculated with inappropriate formula[4], TotalC/HDL 3.1 (less than half the average risk)' Trig:HDL ratio = 0.26 (2 or less is considered ideal) and both low trig and Low TotalC/HDL are indicative of large boyant LDL, so on every interpretation my panel was excellent but she told me I HAD to stop eating eggs and fat..... Guess what I did- more eggs and fat......
[4] http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~geoff36/LDL_mmol.htm
 
I appreciate your post, hugh, because I am currently on a very strict - if you have seen my earlier post, only cooked meats and veggies, some cooked fruit, but no oils and butter - diet with the instruction of an acupuncturist/naturopath. I lost some weight due to it, so the naturopath has allowed a bit of potato in my meals, just not too much at a time. Reading your post has helped me see that this is only helping me (and I do feel a lot better since I have started), and that I can get through this.

Sorry for the sappy post, I just needed to read it from someone who has also experienced this.
 
Hi Basmah, I appreciate your post, but keep in mind i'm just some guy telling people to eat real food.
My own thoughts are that some carbs are ok (if not essential) but i found sweet potato and some white rice less problematic than potato.for my digestion.
Keep in mind you need either fat OR carbs (or a combination) and a diet with insufficient of either is NOT good. (with nothing else to use the body cannibalizes itself)

Is the diet helping?
Can you spare the weight you have lost?
Does your accupuncturist have a plan for reintroducing foods?
Is someone else (doc,GI etc) keeping an eye on you?
When will you add foods?
You will need to add fats/oils slowly as they can cause D if too much too quickly.

If, if, if.......
If you are loosing weight too quickly (or too much weight) then add rice (or fat?) back in immediately,
 
Hey y'all:

Here's a tip that I found was a tremendous help to me and opened up the flexibility of the diet tremendously.

We are cautioned against using nut flours too early in the diet. I definitely agree with this, with one very big caveat.

If you soak your nuts in salt water before using them, it removes the single greatest threat to digestion you encounter when consuming nuts - enzyme inhibitors.

If you want to use nut flour early on in the diet, soak your almonds or walnuts for 12 / 4 hours, respectively, dry them in the oven at 150 degrees F, then treat them exactly as you would regular nuts!

Very simple trick. I went from feeling terrible after consuming nuts to literally not even knowing I had eaten them. I also gained 10 pounds in a month.
 

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